Jenny Tucker | The Centerline Community: Matrescence, Community, and Finding Your People in Motherhood

WELCOME TO SEASON 5: Moms Making Impact  🎉

What if the hardest parts of postpartum aren't a sign that something is wrong with you — but a sign that something is finally waking up? 

In this episode, Jessica sits down with Jenny Tucker, founder of Centerline Community, a support space for new and expecting moms navigating postpartum and matrescence. Jenny brings her background in mental health counseling and yoga to a conversation about the good mother myth, the portal of postpartum, generational healing, and why building a village isn't just nice to have — it's biologically necessary. 

This one is for every mom who has ever felt alone in the hardest season of her life.

MAIN TOPICS COVERED

• How Centerline Community started as a prenatal yoga Zoom call in March 2020 — and grew to 500+ moms
• Why existing postpartum support is mostly baby-focused — and what moms actually need instead
• The portal of postpartum — what gets unearthed when a baby is born
• The good mother myth and the facade of perfect mom life
• Matrescence as an opportunity for generational healing
• Why moms are biologically not designed to be alone with their babies all day
• The people-pleasing conditioning that makes postpartum harder than it has to be
• Running a business from a feminine energy framework
• How to find your village when you're new, isolated, or introverted
• What it looks like to stop outsourcing your own wisdom
• The Centerline Community membership — weekly Zoom groups, in-person meetups, and the Mothership

HOW TO CONNECT WITH JENNY TUCKER

• Website: centerlinecommunity.com
• Instagram: @centerlinecommunity
• Free month trial code: welcomemama

This episode is sponsored by Collabs Creative - a boutique digital marketing company helping small business owners and creatives tell their story.

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Transcript

0:10

Hello and welcome to the Mama Making Podcast, where we share stories of moms making impact in their own lives and in the world around them. I'm Jessica, and each week I sit down with women who are building businesses, leading communities, shaping culture, and redefining what success looks like inside of motherhood. Because motherhood does not have to stop your ambition, it can transform it. Now let's get into it. Hello everyone, and welcome to the Mama Making podcast. If you're new here, welcome. If you're not new, then welcome back. Today I am so excited to have Jenny Tucker on the podcast. Jenny is the founder of the Centerline Community, a support space for new and expecting moms navigating postpartum and matrescence. With a background in mental health counseling and yoga, she helps mothers untangle the quote unquote good mother myth and find themselves again in the messy, beautiful transition into motherhood. Welcome, Jenny. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. Thanks for the beautiful intro, your spots. You're so welcome. So tell me a little bit more about you, who you are, where you're from, and then we'll get into your community. Yeah, I'm Jenny. I'm so excited to be chatting today. I am from Phoenix, Arizona. And I'm actually back in Arizona now. I've lived here almost two and a half years. Came from Santa Barbara. I move around a lot with my husband and our two kids. They're three and five now. His job as a collegiate basketball coach moves us to different college towns. And we were lucky enough to be in Santa Barbara for six years, which is where I started Centerline mom group. Well, it was, it was just a mom, a mom meetup when we started. Um and yeah, it turned into a business and like my third baby, basically. And yeah, like you said, I have a background in mental health counseling. I went to mass, I got my master's mental health counseling thinking I wanted to be at LMFT, a therapist, maybe with college students or couples. And then I got into that work in my clinicals and did not like one-on-one therapy. Was like, well, I'm about to finish this master's, so what is this gonna look like? But little did I know, yeah, seven or eight years after completing that degree, I'd be doing what I do now, which is perfect. Yeah, I love to see when it's like I started completely differently and then somehow it all came together, maybe looked a little different than planned. But so tell me what prompted you to start centerline? What is it? What was like the starting point that was like, okay, I need to start this, and this is what it's gonna look like. Yes, great question because when it started, it was a friend and I teaching a prenatal yoga class on Zoom. Says, um, yeah, I was working for a yoga studio and was a school counselor at the time. It was March 2020, a month after I found out I was pregnant with my first, which is also, of course, the beginning of the shutdown for COVID. It was like, talk about, yeah, things ending differently than you thought. Like, did not think that was the pregnancy I was gonna have. Um, and yeah, we were teaching prenatal yoga on Zoom, and there was like five of us that were pregnant together. And it was the only way, none of my other friends were pregnant. It was the only way to like connect with other pregnant women in my area, even though I couldn't see them face to face just on the computer. Um, and we got really close and we wanted to chat about a lot of stuff. We had a lot of questions because the support we were getting outside of connecting together was really minimal because of the shutdown. But also I learned, you know, two years later when Centerline really took off that there's really not a lot of support for moms in general. It's like your prenatal visits, you might be like have like kind of a mommy and me group you're connected with somehow, but I found it all very surface level and really not about moms. The pregnancy was about the pregnancy. And when you give birth, then it's about the baby. And I was like, what up, what about mom? Was like the question. Um, and yeah, I was a school counselor at the time. And like I said, two years into kind of hosting these meetups that were not meant to be any business or group or anything serious. It was like, well, let's just go to the park six feet apart with our masks and sit with our babies because I'm going crazy in my house. Right. Yeah. And then it it was like, like I said, five moms, 12 moms, 30 moms, and now 500 plus moms that are in our community because yeah, I just don't think there's enough out there for new moms. It's like I said, kind of more surface level or baby focused support. And I was like, I kind of I I'm not okay with that. So like let's let's add something, let's fill in the gaps for moms. Um yeah, and felt like the school counseling work that I was doing at the time with that counseling degree, I thought I always loved the idea of working with kids because, like, oh, prevention, I can like prevent right, bad things from happening or trauma or all these things rather than in therapy. It's more like you're fixing it or going back. And it felt like, okay, the let's take a step even further. And if we are instead of working with kids, if we work with their own mothers, like and treat moms with the support they deserve in early postpartum, that would be like I have found like um, I'm sure you degree, like the biggest pain point for our world. Now I'm going like big picture real quick. No, but I think it it all yeah, it's such a trickle-down effect. And I think what you found about like the mommy and me or like the baby story time is so like quick. It's maybe an hour, you're in and out, you're like going to your next feeding, or you need to change a diaper, like you said, very surface level. And even those are like baby focused. There's nowhere. I mean, in the pregnancy, it's about being pregnant and then you have this baby and it's never about you again, which is a hard transition for most moms, I feel. Um, and we're just it's such a transformational time frame that like that we're just forgetting about moms during something that's so monumental is crazy to me. Um, and like it's like you said, it's such a trickle down. Like when moms are struggling, families are struggling, kids are struggling. So I love that antithesis of like we're we're meeting moms where they need us most. Thank you. So, where did you decide what it was all going to look like? I love to hear like the beginning story of here's what I thought it was gonna look like. This is how it kind of ebbed and flowed, and this is where we are today. I I think in the beginning it was like I just wanted to be around moms and other women who would like go there like conversationally and like and like put down the armor or the like Instagram facade of like mom life. And because that's what I thought I was going into. It's like, oh, especially being in Santa Barbara, I'm gonna be on the beach with my baby. It's gonna be beautiful. And then COVID through wrench, and that kind of like I described before, it was like, it was just not none of it was like I thought it would be on paper or like in that beautiful image that we have. It's like kind of felt like a punch in the gut of like, none of this is what I thought it would be. I want to be around women who will speak to that. And instead of all of us just like pretending it's okay. So not only was it not what I thought it would be, just like day to day of being a mom with a baby, like it was a lot harder than I thought. I definitely struggled emotionally, mentally. And like the people I knew that had kids weren't talking about that, or maybe I thought something must be wrong with me, I must be bad at this, or like a failure, or right, fill in the blank of all the intrusive thoughts we get in those early weeks of like, oh my God, no one told me, so I must be something must be wrong with me. And as I, as I was honest about my own journey, just with women I knew and women I was doing these meetups with, I think they were drawn to that. And it's what what kept moms coming to our events was like, oh yeah, she's and these women are like talking about what it's really like. Like instead of yeah, kind of keeping up with the bullshit story of like this image of motherhood. Um I think that was refreshing for people. And it was really healing for me to be like, okay, I'm not alone. Nothing is wrong with me. Like, this is a universal struggle. We're just not talking about it. So I became really passionate about speaking out about certain things, which comes, it came with like struggles, like I said, the healing and the freedom and like the oh, like sigh of relief, like thank God I'm not alone in this. But also came with like some people in my life not really understanding because it was like too honest, it felt like, which I know one of the things that we might talk about today is like that kind of like permission to be messy that moms don't have. I feel like I started giving that to myself and to the women around me. And like I said, that's like what drew women to a group like ours instead of like this perfect like bubble of mom life that really is non-existent, like it doesn't exist. Yeah, I think you're so right. I think the like to me, the authenticity of that of like there are some moms who have really great experiences and they just like go with the flow and it's great. And I love that for them. But I feel like the majority of moms get to get to postpartum and they're like, wait, what the hell is this? This is not what I thought it was going to be. So I know myself, when I had my son, I was like, this postpart, like, we're not off to the start. I thought we were gonna have postpartum. Like, my recovery wasn't great. My I had a very easy baby. But on top of that, like my body was going through so much change. I was going through so much identity change. I mean, it just changes everything, especially with your first. And so you look to the people who are closest to you to like be honest with you and be like, this is what's gonna happen. And there's so much, like you said, there's a weird stigma about being honest. And like now that I'm on the other side of it, like I don't totally want to share the horror stories of motherhood with new moms because I'm like, I wouldn't want to be scared, but like moms who are already in it need other moms to be like, what is this? So I so value the idea of like coming to it authentically and being honest and being like a person people know that they can come to and be like, holy shit, this is not what I thought it was gonna be. Completely. Yeah. And it I feel like the group itself really took off like because of that vibe. It was like, oh, I can come here and be me. Where like as a woman, as a person and then a woman and then a mom, it's like there's not a lot of places where we can come and like be truly authentic. It's like there's always some kind of story we're trying to tell or facade we're putting up, like for many reasons. And it felt like, yeah, I became really passionate about that piece of it, like almost being a stand for other moms. Like it took on this advocacy piece that I really didn't expect, especially into my second pregnancy, like going about my prenatal visits differently and what my support was gonna look like and those things, and shared really openly, like, hey, here's what I'm doing different. Here's all the things I thought about the first time that were not true. And um, yeah, I think that's just kept moms, moms who are seeking out a more authentic experience or or are feeling that same thing, like looking around, like, is something wrong with me, or is like, like, what's going on here, guys? So it became so much more than um just like mom meetups, right? Like baby me music class. Like that's how we started too just like mom meetups, prenatal yoga. But the the desire that I felt these women and myself had to like go deeper was so potent that I was like, okay, there's something here. So we yeah, we're in an iMessage with five moms and then 12. And then at the time, iMessage would let you have 31 people in a group chat, and we exceeded that. So we're like, well, we need to go to an app or organize this somehow. And um, that's when I was like, oh, like I'm now facilitating a community, not just like planning when the play date is. So it was like, oh, I wonder, I remember thinking this is now, it's been going on for six years now, our group. And then I started it as a business maybe two and a half years ago. Um, but around, yeah, the two-year mark, because it was 2020 when we started, and then two years in, around 2022, kind of when the world was normal-ish. Because when I had my daughter, it was like um that it was November 2022, and that was the first time our hospital there in California had gone back to pre-COVID things. It was like, oh, okay, we're like back to normal. But then, yeah, that's when I was like, yeah, but there's still not enough for homes out there. So like we gotta keep doing what we're doing in this capacity. And I had left my job at that point as a counselor because it honestly didn't pay to work, didn't make sense to work at a school, to be an educator at a school and pay for two kids in daycare in Santa Barbara. Just it didn't make sense. But I was like, yeah, I'm not doing that. And I'm gonna I'm gonna see where this centerline thing can lead, and who knows? And then yeah, years later, it's like, yeah, a full-on business. I say I work part-time, but it's very much, as you know, like running our business is a full-time job. I have to like lay the boundaries down really thick because like life and work imitate each other all day long because I work with moms, and then when I'm not doing that, I am momming. So it's like, yeah, there's been struggles that way of like taking care of myself, the business, the other moms, my own kids, but it's yeah, like more than I could have ever asked for. Like if any centerline moms are listening to this, like so grateful that now I get to, yeah, work with moms every day and help them witness and process their own journey instead of pretending like it's not happening. Yeah, I love that. So when you made the transition to like this is a little more than just like a chill hangout for moms, what did that, what went into that? What went into that decision to kind of go all in? What did the framework look like from mom meetups to what it looks like now? It looked a lot like looking at the logistics, because it was like, okay, how much time am I spending on facilitating and adding all this value? Like I was like, I, you know, on my phone with baby on my boob, or you know, the naptime hustle of like doing the things I had to do while I'm home with my two kids. And uh, so it looked like energetically, it was like, okay, if I'm gonna keep this going, like I really need to be intentional with my own energy and right, like I was extending so much. And uh when I was about six months postpartum with my daughter, um, it got to a point where I was like extending too much and struggling post, you know, as six months postpartum, which sounds to some people maybe like you're off to the races and moving and grooving, but like that's still pretty early. Like things are still really fresh. And I was like, okay, I've taken on way too much in terms of facilitating this community and trying to take care of my own self and my babies. And um, my husband's he's gone like a half of the year basically. I'm solo parenting a lot. So it was like, ooh, it's so the beginning of sort of that shift to like, is this going to be my job instead of just a thing that I'm doing because I love it? Was yeah, looking at that energy shift. And that looked like, what will childcare look like? What will finances look like? And and what will like the initial investment into getting some of those logistics set up? So, like to your question, it looked like talking to a business attorney to get, you know, all the like boring business stuff, but that's so necessary in place, like for a website, for terms and conditions, for contracts of anybody, right, getting services from what would now be a business, not just a thing that I'm organizing on the side. So that was that's something actually within centerline. We have a business group for, like we said at the very beginning when we started talking today, like that kind of going on one path and thinking you're gonna do one thing maybe career-wise, and then totally shifting. I see that so often in mothers because I feel like postpartum is this messy, crazy time where you're like, who am I? What's my life? Everything's up in flames, everything that I knew that I thought I knew. Like, I don't even know which way is up. I feel like I picture like being out in space and you're just like floating, like you don't even know where the ground is. Any postpartum moms hopefully are probably like, yes, I'm out there floating. But like, yeah, it's such, it's like crazy and disorienting, but also this beautiful time to be like, wait, how do I want to spend my days and my right? Like, is the job that I've been at for 10 years worth it? Like, I don't know. So we have a group where we talk about that. And I share stories like this all the time of being like, yeah, like making that shift of and that going from okay, stable job or stay-at-home mom to like, okay, now I'm like investing in creating a thing and there's like skin in the game. So yeah, investing in business attorney, website, all the yeah, liability stuff in place, and thinking of it more like, okay, what's my role in this? If I'm not just your mom friend who's planning the play date or the mom meetup, like, what is my role in terms of like I'm now responsible for the support I'm providing to these women? Like, I really want it to be intentional, stay authentic. There was so much advice in my ear from so many different areas, business-wise or strategy-wise, or just like overall vision. But I I really tried to stay really present and in the moment of like what the moms I was serving at that time needed. And that's like meandered the path of how the business has been run, what we've offered, like how I spend my time or organize our offerings. Like, I've really like because motherhood is like this living, breathing thing. It's not linear. It's not like it's like that meme of like what you think baby sleep is gonna be like, and you think you're gonna be like, okay, we're working towards sleeping through the night. It's like, no, it's actually like yeah, wiggly wobbly, messy journey. Um, that's sort of what the journey of building this business and this community has been is just like kind of tending to what I feel is potent, like in real time, rather than like trying to again like follow like this painted picture of what I think it should be or of what other people think it should be. Yeah. Yeah, I love the idea of taking inventory of what's needed right then and not necessarily trying to forecast what will be needed. I think like, like you said, energy-wise, it keeps you really present, I imagine, in what's needed, like your your pulse, your um what's the phrase? Your have a pulse on what's happening in your community. You know what you'll need to do, but don't necessarily need to spend the time and energy on like, okay, what does everyone want in the future? I feel like that can be super helpful in keeping you grounded and where you need to be. Yeah, it's like parenting where you're like, all I can do is tend to like the child that's in front of me and like the mother that I am today. Like I can't fix what happened before or like worry about tomorrow because like I gotta focus on this like child tantruming in front of me right now and like regulate myself and them. And yeah, there's like no other option. I think too that it's been really empowering to run a business from like more of a feminine standpoint and like bring that energy to it. It's been something that's really important to me is like listening to certain narratives that like either are steeped within me of like what it means to be productive or successful. And also, yeah, the noise that's constantly like you're not doing enough, or that's not the way you're supposed to do it, or you should be doing this, like all those kind of negative stories that are like on a loop in our head all day, whether it's business, work, parenting, relationships. I feel like as women, that's it's constantly like this noise. And so part of it for me has been like showing moms a different way and like showing myself. So it's been like, yeah, really healing to take kind of this more feminine approach of like, yeah, I'm on my period this week. So like I'm not, I'm gonna cancel that meeting, like embody that and speak to that and like again, not pretend it's not happening because that doesn't work. Like we've seen that that doesn't work. Um, this like pretending that we're told is so important. Yeah, I can totally identify with the word that I like that you're talking about, like the feminine leaning into that. The word that I'm kind of leaning into this year is alignment and focusing on like what feels aligned, which at the end of the day is leaning into like what feels good in my body and in my nervous system. And like, do I need to cancel uh a 30-minute meeting to just like sit and get my mind somewhere else? It's also like I drop my kid off at school. Yoga is at the exact right time, so let's do yoga on Monday so that we can set ourselves up for the week. So I think it's um really cool to see more moms leaning into this like authenticity, leaning into what aligns, that feminine like urge to do more, but knowing the like innate balance of doing more and having a family and raising little kids. And so I think it's really cool to start to see women create their own businesses under their own standards and not the standard that has been set for us. And like you said, a lot of that is rewriting stories that we've told ourselves or been told. And I I know that I've been combating that like crazy when it comes to like building my own business and like what should be or what I think I should do, and like really just going with our gut on what makes sense. Completely. And it's like the same, right? All of this I feel like mirrors like parenting and motherhood and our journey of matrescence, right? Transitioning to becoming a mom because it's like we're taught, we're taught as our whole lives as women and girls to outsource our own wisdom. Like look outside of yourself for the answer. Do this thing that we think you should do instead of like, right, what you're what feels aligned or what intuitively you know is true, but you've been taught to doubt yourself. So like then you become a mom and there's this like huge kind of upheaval of like, right? This like mama bear energy and this like wisdom and this like, I don't know, connection to something beyond ourselves because like, duh, we just brought us another another soul to the earth, like, right? It's like this woe moment of like, uh, like I'm kind of awake in a different way. And I now have access to like my intuition and my gut and this wisdom. Like, I feel for me and what I kind of share in our postpartum groups, I call it like um or mentors of mine have called it the portal of postpartum. It's like this like kind of existence is unlocked that like maybe we didn't have before or we were told to like turn away from. So I really think just, oh my God, as women, I just think women are so amazing. We're like magical beings. And it's like we're taught our whole lives to deny that. And then yeah, you become step into becoming a mom and like the opportunity is there. Not all of us are given permission to take it, um, which I know is hard. It's it's kind of like I see sometimes that a group like centerline can be tough for some moms because like not everyone's there to step in and be like, yes, yeah, like women are the most magical thing. Motherhood is the most messy. magical thing that will ever exist and like not everyone's kind of ready or willing or able to like put I talked about like the facade or like the I don't know the image we're told to uphold like not everyone can or wants to like put that down and see the real mess because it's like really there's like some dark stuff in there. I forget we were talking about business and then yeah I went to talk about portal postpartum and matrix I was actually no that's exactly what I was going to go into and that I think what you say about postpartum being a portal is exactly kind of the words to what I'm seeing and that so the podcast the mama making podcast started as just I was very interested prior to having kids about motherhood and like wanted to ask all the nosy questions. So I was like whatever I'm gonna start myself. And then as I've gone on through the years became a mom myself started talking to so many other moms started my own business and then I really started to realize this shift in moms after having one, two, three subsequent kids that are like this is not it. Like there's something amiss and it's not what I want. So I feel like we're in the middle of this huge shift of moms recreating what works for them, like making money, going after what they want to go after, doing something super impactful like you're doing with centerline to meet other moms where they need the most support in a way that makes sense for them. And I think each of us could share experiences of first becoming a mom and then like noticing this shift or change. And I'm sure it shows up for people differently but like for me specifically I remember literally birthing this baby and being like oh I don't give a shit about what anyone says or what anyone tells me to do. Like you can take your opinion and shove it. Like I don't have like whatever came out with birthing a baby of like caring what everyone else thought or everyone else's opinions was such a huge shift for me being like such a people person and really relying on other people validating that I was doing the right thing. Don't get me wrong it's still something I combat but yeah once I became a mom, I was like this is the only thing that matters at the end of the day. So like this is what I need to build my life around and I think being able to see be in the center of watching so many moms come to this realization like we don't have to do the typical nine to five. We can create what works for us and on our terms and what we want it to look like. And I think that's the intersection that I see in the work that you're doing that there is this portal of like we're different people now. We might have the same personality or same interests or whatever, but we are different people and like seeing other people choose or other moms specifically choose their path you do like harnessing that power of going through this portal is very cool to to see happening. I totally agree. Yes it's like a I feel it completely like energetically especially being surrounded by and like attracting like getting in touch with women like you or women that join our group who are like yes like kind of like yeah in the portal and feeling it and being like um like giving themselves permission or maybe finally feeling the permission to like choose a different way or to redesign what yeah what they actually value. Like I think when it comes to this again like business mirroring motherhood and parenthood is like and womanhood is like this redefining of things like cost or value or right. And then totally looking at time and energy in like as like an ener that energy exchange that we're doing all the time between right, whether it's figuring out the childcare or like what we're spending our like mind, body and spirit on is like just thinking of our energy as so much more valuable than I know that before I yeah had kids or started a business I was like doing like five people's jobs at my one job where I got like a 2% raise every year. It's like I'm like Joe Snow next to me is making more doing way less and I have to do probably some stuff he's supposed to do because I'm like, oh you're so good at this. Let's give you this project. And I'm like yes please pat me on the head I'll do that. And then yeah like you said this baby comes out and you're like I'm sorry that's over. And like that makes people uncomfortable I found is like we take on a lot like this shift that you're describing is like this empowerment we're feeling that we're showing our kids because I think that's a huge part of it, right? We have these kids and we're like, I have a responsibility to show you that this is not working and I'm not gonna pretend it's working for you as my kids, my partner hopefully and like the women around me. I'm like I know I feel a huge responsibility for this like honesty and advocacy to be like yeah we're not gonna do this anymore guys because like we it's just like not an option in having kids. Yeah you look at your daughter and you're like there's no way in hell I'm gonna let you go through some of the things I've been through like if I like not on my watch. So there's this yeah like responsibility to and and again going back to like that definitely makes people uncomfortable whether it's other mothers in your life from other generations definitely men like uncomfortable it's so funny we had a mom sign out last night and there we were all in wigs and sparkles and I was in a full denim jumpsuit and we're just like having the time of our lives at six o'clock at night and these like construction workers come in and I was talking to this guy and like with paint on his face and then like a neon vest um we end up like talking about feminism sitting at the bar and I'm like yeah I'm a mom and here's what that means and here's just like what's your definition of feminism we're like just sitting here I like went home last night was like my life has gotten really cool that like that's what I care about talking about and like I don't give a shit what he thinks but like I'm gonna tell him because this is important. And like like you said you're like I I I can't have the energy to care about stuff that doesn't matter anymore. Like I my time on earth is just so precious. And like yeah looking at your child you're like I it's just yeah yeah there's there's such a power to it that I want like every every woman and mom to be able to have the time and space to harness that and one of the things that you just said that kind of sparked my interest is that generational shift we're starting to do of like creating it for ourselves or doing things differently. Have you seen within your community of moms who are kind of changing generational patterns or kind of making a different choice moving forward with their generation of kids and how they're raising them with attention to how different it is and the different priorities. Yeah, I think it comes up especially in our early postpartum group like pretty much every week is something around like our moms or mother-in-laws or other parents in our life, other yeah, people from other generations who have influence on us or who we grew up like wanting so badly to make proud of us and now we're moms and feel this pull to yeah make a different choice or speak to something or yeah just see a need in a different way that sometimes makes those people in our life like uncomfortable or upset or it's like this oh this crossroads of like this people pleasing we've been taught is so important to keep everyone around us comfortable to get that pat on the head, especially from other adults in our life that we care about. And I see it so often that that's like one of the biggest struggles for new moms is this like these feelings they can't quite explain because there isn't always there aren't always spaces to talk about it. It's like not everyone has a postpartum therapist who gets it who they have set up so that when that baby comes out and you're feeling all the things like you have that conversation which anyone listening like please do that for when you're if you're pregnant or you're having another baby or thinking about it, like get a person who gets it or even if it's a support group to start and then look for therapy like to have the spaces just to put words to this like big upheaval that like you described when that baby came out stuff comes out with it and stuff comes up that's been either like we've been told to look away from or that's yeah been hiding within us that like birth emerges some stuff. People call it right baby blues or homeownershift and all that stuff is happening but like I truly believe it's like stuff is unearthed from within us that like is begging to be tended to um and a lot of it is pain around choosing a different path or upsetting or disappointing someone like our own mom or your aunt or your grandma or your sister like in your life. And I see women struggle with that so deeply. And it's so empowering again especially for the women in our lives for ourselves and then for our own kids for us to like step into what feels true to us despite what other people are going to think, especially those people close to us but the pain and like the discomfort in our own bodies around making those choices is really big and it's yeah like not really talked about that all that that's occurring while you're figuring out is this job right for me? Do these friends even align with me? Do I hate my husband now? And then amidst all that is this like unearthing of every deep dark thought you've ever had in your life. It's like this yeah it's a lot happening. Yeah I think so many people or moms, women come through postpartum and they're like, well I had a really great childhood like I love my mom or I love my grandma like whoever whoever and I think we don't give ourselves permission to be like I didn't get what I wanted or needed and now that I'm pregnant thinking about how I'm gonna raise my kid or I'm a new mom thinking about like what I need or want I think we don't also don't give ourselves permission to like grieve something we didn't get. And I definitely experienced that as a new mom. I had a great childhood I have a good relationship with my mom. I love my mother-in-law but there were things that came up in pregnancy that I was like oh that is not something I'll be doing or in postpartum that I had to set a boundary around that I was going to choose not to do or do differently and I think a lot of times we don't give ourselves the permission to do that because we don't want to upset whoever it might be. And so I think that like you said not addressing that or having a group of people that you know you can address it with is key to being able to kind of move through it in a way that feels like safe and productive for you. Completely yeah just like naming oh I know a lot of us can probably picture like sitting there with a baby and having these like upheavals of emotion that you don't really know where they're coming from or what they are. I remember just like weeping and I just asked my husband like can you just like put your hand on my knee and just like sit here while I weep it's like like it felt very strange but it was like this is what needs to happen right now. It's like I just need to let some stuff out and like yeah it's not always like someone's fault or there's not always someone to blame and you just like have these really big feelings I truly believe are like like you mentioned yeah generational like that there's this opportunity in postpartum and motherhood for like generational healing like in our lineage or just like as women on this earth like to let stuff come up and feel it and like it doesn't always have somewhere to go because like there's a lot of brokenness, right? We see it every single day. It feels like more and more and right as moms, it's like our hearts are yeah so vulnerable to every tough thing out there that's occurring and it's like in our faces all day long. And it feels like it feels like this opportunity to just like feel that instead of shove it down is just like the best first step. And I feel like with the groups that we lead it's like it's like the gateway to like circle like circling up with other women. I feel like whether it's at the coffee shop, even if it's at Baby and me library storytime and that's all you can manage like oh circling up with other women is like I feel like any problem in the world like that's the first step to solving it. It's like yeah just having it be yeah like a permission to witness your own experience and like whether that leads to processing it in therapy or finding oh there is a thing that was traumatic that I didn't know I had within me or a memory or whatever. But like yeah like like you described this like this like uncomfortable feelings that come up just like the permission to feel it and and have it be a thing that we're allowed to talk about instead of sweeping it under the rug for another generation. Yeah, right. What advice do you have about as I as I became a mom and fell more into like motherhood and leaned more into like my feminine side of things, I felt this shift in like who my people were and have this really close group of friends that I didn't necessarily put together intentionally it just kind of happened for moms who are in a space that are like I whether I'm far away from my family or I don't have a ton of friends that have kids right now or I'm not I'm new to a community what are ways that you think that people can start to invite that energy in to create that elusive village? I think first like noticing in your own body we use that word aligned a lot today like what feels really aligned like what feels energetically like good like people you spend time talking to and feel good after it's like ooh I want more of that. Like I'm gonna check in with that person more often because they make me feel good. And then also listening to your body in terms of like when you hang up on the phone with someone and that's not it. It's like ooh not like oh I'm gonna shut that person out of my life but like being again like really strategic with where your energy's going and like yeah sending like fueling the relationships or the environments that like really make you feel good in your body because like again with the responsibility of motherhood, right? Like this these other beings or this other being this baby that I birthed into the world like they're gonna feel what you feel in your body especially when they're so little and you're so connected. So it's like well if anything like putting it putting if you feel bad like not spending time with a certain friend or right if it's whatever the thing is that's making you not feel so great. Like thinking about it because it can be hard to be like well who am I to make these choices or take care of myself in these ways or I might look crazy if I'm like yeah I'm not gonna hang out with her as often like am I being dramatic? It's like no you have a responsibility to make sure you feel good in your body so you can take care of this other person. And yeah, like not again like feed into that misalignment. So I feel like re like uh rethinking the whole scenario of like what what would something like that be for like what is what is the value in being really intentional about who I'm spending time with and not just like not just like ignoring like feeling icky after you talk to a certain person. Like it's is actually really crucial. And yeah advice for um I know for me it's just like I have learned in just like becoming more confident in being myself as a mom and being okay with being messy or making mistakes and like or having the tough conversation because there's just like not time to ball it all up and like wonder what the other person's thinking about you. Like have the conversation do the thing like yeah like stop I guess holding back in all the ways. For me it's been like just putting out a certain vibe being myself approaching the mom in Costco and being like I go to coffee on Fridays with a bunch of moms do you want to come? And like yeah and she might be like that girl's crazy and that's fine. Like I don't care. But she might be like oh my God I have no friends and yes that sounds amazing. And like just kind of being for me it's like I'm so extroverted that it's easy. People are like how do you do it? And like I just feel good connecting with other people. So whatever that feel good thing is for you and just like yeah not being afraid to be yourself because the people who aren't gonna drive like it doesn't matter. Let them leave and then you'll by being most yourself that you can be like you'll attract yeah the people that make you feel good. Like they'll they'll come. Yeah and even if you are someone who's introverted like I definitely identify with being the extroverted person like I'll talk to anybody but there are so many moms who are like no thanks I'm not interested in that. But I think putting yourself in the rooms like finding the mom coffee meetup like doing a little work on social media to find those groups or Google whatever but putting yourself in the room and then just being open to allowing those extroverted people to come up to you and chat and I think that can make a world of difference just putting yourself in the room and like feeling that vibe. Maybe it takes you a while to be like okay this is my group this isn't but it's like what do you have to lose exactly yeah and I think even for yes, let's say the mom who like hasn't always loved being in a big group of women or girls or had close relationships or whatever. It's like this coming back to this idea of you and your child and like you in motherhood and just again like in your body biologically like we're not meant to be doing all this individually. Like we're not yeah meant to be home alone all day when one of my mentors spoke at a centerline group really early on like stuck in my mind forever of like you're not biologically designed to be alone with that baby for nine hours while dad's at work. Like that's not biologically appropriate. And that's why you feel anxiety and isolation and depression and anger and like oh my God you're right like that was fuel too to keep these centerline groups going and to like expand like when we moved from California to Prescott I was like okay let me like kind of poke around and see what's available here. And it was like okay no these moms are all kind of doing this pretty individually like let's change that because it's so much more fun to like like I even think about like all of us at night sometimes um or like at dinner I think of all the homes on my street or like in town I'm like why are we all like individually making dinner? Like this is so much effort and it's so expensive and it's like so many dishes like we should be yeah like we should there's like a way to hack this system. Like this is not it. So just like minimal like even minor things, right? Because we can't all like move to a commune tomorrow and like fix all the world problems. But like yeah little things of like oh hey I know that mom said her husband's working late like I'm gonna invite them over from three to five so that she can and then she can make her dinner she can take home with her and like yeah just like little shifts like that to bring more of like this village that we all envisioned in motherhood. It's like it really doesn't exist in the way our modern society's set up. You know for me I can I love being able to like like have that structure of that village and invite moms into it. I know that not everybody right has like the coffee meetup in their town or the right moms that they've found and like my dream is to have right that in every community and like right change the way that we're mothering really and so right now it's more of those little acts of like inviting moms to get curious about that idea that like you're not meant to do this by yourself. You're alone a lot like even if you don't want to go out for mom's night out, like just think about yeah surrounding yourself with other humans, hopefully other human women mother because I think so many of the pain points in motherhood come from us trying to do it by ourselves like physically just being in your home alone. And it's like not always easy or feasible to get out to the event or whatever the thing is. But any little shift even if it's just texting or joining a Zoom group or like fueling that connection to other women is like the best medicine I think for moms. Yeah I love that like commune energy of like hey come over everyone come over like come to my house for dinner or like drop your kids in my backyard for the next two hours and like go read a book. I don't know. But I love that idea of like creating that village or community in the way that makes sense for you in your life space in your whatever community you're in. I really love that idea of doing it together. Yeah it's kind of too this like um with this empowerment motherhood this kind of like not caring anymore energy right like I don't have um energy to care about things that don't matter the same way it's like I finally can like I'm finally awakened to this idea that there are no rules like the way I've been shown is the way by other people in my life by movies by all these things influencing us from like day one on earth it's like oh there actually aren't any rules and like yeah you can move to a commune like I would love that. But like yeah in all the little ways like yeah you don't have to pay for a babysitter like you can drop your kids off at my house and it's like allowed to do that I'm allowed to ask that it's like my yeah friend of mine went was having um had a couples counseling appointment with her husband and like when she asked if she could drop her kids off at my house while they went I was like this is like the best moment ever that like we're at this place just in yeah that like there is a world where yeah where we're not yeah where we're I don't know creating a different way. Yeah no I love that I definitely identify with the like being fulfilled and like flattered to be asked to help someone to do something because I know it's hard for people to ask and so being able to be the one to help I think is so like fulfilling to me. I totally identify with that. Yes and I'm feeling like so proud of the friend for asking and then you're like I'm the one you asked like yeah yeah it's yeah so like you were mentioning too just like even if you are like nervous or introverted or whatever's keeping you from like connecting feel like yeah like knowing that it goes so much farther. I tell moms in our groups all the time like on Zoom like like even if you come here and don't share you sitting and nodding when someone shared something like that creates a ripple effect. Like that's it's not just moms coming on Zoom to complain about motherhood. It's like so much bigger than that us sharing our stories and just seeing each other. And like yeah I really believe that's the way we're gonna yeah heal all the poison in the world is like yeah by starting with the way that we support new moms and moms supporting each other. Yeah I love that. Well I love everything that you're doing with Centerline and I want people to be able to find you. So tell us where we can find you on social media, website anything else you would like to share. Yes, thank you. Yeah we have an online mom membership with moms all over the world our website centerlinecommunity.com or centerline community on Instagram you can find me and contact me there. And yeah we have a month free the code is welcome mama for anybody anywhere who wants to try a month free to just like see what we're all about. We have weekly Zoom groups, in-person meetups in certain cities. I mentioned I was in Santa Barbara so we're in a few different areas Southern California and the central coast and then here in Arizona where I'm at and then this year one of the goals on the vision board is to create more meetups in different cities and eventually a system where you can type in your zip code and find the meetup in your area with yeah judgment free moms that want yeah that want you to drop their your kids off at their house and that want to make you dinner because yeah that's the world that I'm envisioning. And um yeah so you can try us for a free month or we have a couple different membership tiers depending on what kind of support you're looking for. If anyone listening today was like ooh like loves the juicy conversations we have a membership called the Mothership we meet on Wednesdays and like we go there and have different amazing guest speakers come in. You have a library of recordings provide like with so many amazing wise women and providers OBs therapists energy workers you name it. There's everything from like potty training and first time having sex after baby to like the most woo spiritual stuff like so we have something for everybody. Oh I love that. Well this was so amazing I've loved chatting with you to hear more about all that you're doing and thank you so much for being on thanks for having me I loved it if this conversation resonated with you I'd love for you to follow the podcast wherever you listen and share it with another mom building something meaningful. If you want deeper behind the scenes reflections that I don't share anywhere else join my email list at the Mama Making Podcast dot com. Thank you for being here and I'll see you next time.