The Mama Making Podcast

Katie Fenske | Burnt Pancakes & Potty Training

• Katie Fenske • Season 3 • Episode 81

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On this week’s episode of The Mama Making Podcast…

Jessica is joined by Katie Fenske, certified potty trainer and host of Burnt Pancakes with Katie, to discuss her journey from teaching to starting her own potty training business. Katie dives into the challenges and anxieties parents face during potty training, offering practical tips and insights to make the process smoother.

Together, they explore the importance of meeting children where they are, creating a supportive environment, and how to handle societal pressures surrounding potty training. Katie shares her recommended age range for starting potty training, the ideal timeframe, and tips for reinforcement. Jessica and Katie also share their personal experiences and discuss the importance of patience, consistency, and self-compassion.

In addition, they reflect on their journeys as podcasters and the value of building a supportive community for moms.  

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Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (00:01)
Hello everyone and welcome to the Mama Making Podcast. If you're new here, I'm your host Jessica. If not, welcome back. Today I'm very excited to have Katie Fenske, on the podcast today. She's the voice behind the podcast, Burnt Pancakes with Katie. And she's also a certified potty trainer. I originally found her through her potty training Instagram, it's potty time. Thank you so much, Katie, for being here. I'm so excited to have you.

Katie Fenske (00:25)
Thank you for having me. I love chatting all things mom life.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (00:29)
Yeah, so tell me where you're from, about your family, what you do, whatever you're comfortable sharing.

Katie Fenske (00:35)
Yes. So we are in Southern California, lived in this area all my life. I have three kids. are all three boys, three boys. Ronan is 10, Jet is seven, and Maverick is four. He'll be five in December. They all just. Yeah. thank you. Someone just posted on Instagram, like, unique names for boys. And all three of them were on the list. I was like, yes.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (00:52)
my god, those names couldn't be cooler.

my God, I love that.

Katie Fenske (01:04)
Yeah, so they are all in school now for the first time in 10 years. I have all my kids in school. So now is my time to like do me again, because I feel like I've been like stuck in motherhood, not stuck in motherhood, but just obsessed with motherhood. That's all I've been doing. So now it's time to grow my podcast and my potty training business.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (01:26)
Yes, so tell me what was kind of the antithesis of your podcast?

Katie Fenske (01:31)
Yeah, so I had been a teacher for 17 years. So when I became a mom, I was full -time teaching in the classroom. I was fortunate enough to get a job where I was able to work more from home. So was still in the teaching world, but I had a lot more flexibility. But then as I had my second son and then my third and then COVID happened, that school changed. And it just felt like I couldn't be the mom I wanted to be. So it was like...

you're going to have to have this meeting at nine o 'clock. And I'm like, that's what time my son goes to preschool. And I want to be the one to bring him. So it started feeling like it was taking that motherhood role away from me. And I've just all my life known I was going to be a mom. So there was one point where my husband looked at me. I was like crying because I'm like, can't take him to preschool. And he's like, OK, well, if you didn't teach, what do you like doing? And I just like blurted out, I like helping moms. And I like talking to moms, talking to my friends. And he's like,

Okay, cool. You go find a job doing that. Well, then like, you know, little nuggets came along the way. Like I started learning about this and learning about blogging and I was able to quit my job. It took about two years, a year and a half, two years before I decided to quit teaching. fortunately I have a very supportive husband. so I quit teaching because I wanted to make this podcast. wanted to make mother's voices heard. but in that,

I also started my potty training business, which is something I never thought I would ever do. When I potty trained my first, so this was like eight years ago, I kind of like skimmed a book, talked to some friends and I thought, okay, I'll take a week off, this will be fine. It was a disaster. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done in motherhood. When I talk about like feeling like a failure, potty training is what comes up.

It's so out of your control. It's like you can do everything right. You can read every book, read every blog post, and your kid is still going to do what they're going to do. Like there's, you can do everything in your power and your kid has the ultimate control of going potty. So it took us forever to potty train him. It was a disaster. Then it came time to do my second and I kind of like chilled out a little bit. I think I was very controlling the first time and it went really well with him.

And then by the time it was my third son's time to potty train, I started having a bunch of moms reach out to me like, you've potty trained your kids, you're two, give me some pointers, help me out. And this one mom was like, can we just meet at the park and can you just tell me everything I need to do? And so I did. she would text me later like, this was so helpful. my gosh, I cannot believe I had someone to guide me through it. And so I started thinking like, hmm.

Like if these people needed help, there must be more moms, right? So I started an Instagram and a TikTok account. And I'm like, I'm just going to put out some of the tips, stuff that's like practical, that like, I'm not judging you. I'm just saying what I did and what worked for us. And on TikTok, it kind of blew up really fast. So then I was like, you know what, let me try like doing one -on -ones. My first one was free. I just offered this other mom like, do you want to just meet over Zoom? And I'll like walk you through it. And then I realized like,

okay, parents need this and they can do it. So I've been doing that for I think now two years. I'm working on a course. I wanna do a digital course so that people don't actually have to like meet with me face to face. I know that some people are not comfortable with that. But it's been like such a amazing experience knowing that I can help the mom who I was eight years ago. Like so many of the moms tell me afterwards, it's such a relief being able to talk to someone about this because a lot of times like,

I mean, I get the haters on Instagram like, yeah, everyone's a sort of a potty trainer if they potty train. Why don't you just go ask your family or ask your friends? I'm like, yeah, but sometimes you don't want to feel that like judgment from others or just hear all the unsolicited advice. You just want to hear from like another mom who's been through it. That's like supporting you, not judging you. So that's what I'm doing now.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (05:46)
Yeah, I love that. I found you through the potty training side of things. And that I kind of chronicled the start of potty training my son on my Instagram. And the same thing, was like, it felt like such a failure and like he was just going to do what he was going to do. And it turned into this like, something that he was excited about turned into this like nightmare experience.

Katie Fenske (05:54)
Mm -hmm.

A battle,

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (06:09)
Yes. Yeah. And so he and like you said, he exhibited every sign he loved going into the bathroom with you and would like walk you through your own bathrooming experience and like would tell us he was ready to go and wanted to take his like didn't want to wear a diaper anymore. But when it came time to doing it, it was just like, I'm you're asking me to do something.

Katie Fenske (06:14)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Nope. Yeah.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (06:32)
that I don't want to do. I need to stop playing to attend to this thing. And I was so determined to, I'm sure you hear it all the time as a mom of boys, but boys are so much harder to potty train and they're not going to potty train until they're three or four. And I was so determined to be like, it doesn't have to be like that. And then I like, yeah, yeah. And then I very much had to reel back my stance on that. Not that it won't be, he just wasn't ready. And so I think

Katie Fenske (06:35)
Yep.

it wrong,

Right.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (06:59)
It can be overwhelming to be like, this is just the, like, if you set out to do it, like, this is just the thing we're doing. And I might be ready, the environment might be ready. He might seem like he was ready, but he wasn't. So, yeah, I imagine every parent experiences some kind of failure in potty training. I'm sure that's not uncommon.

Katie Fenske (07:18)
Yes.

I think too, like a lot of people, like in your situation, just knowing that like maybe your child's not being just resistant and naughty and trying to avoid it. Maybe they are like a little scared. Maybe this is new for them. So just like kind of figuring out what the root cause is sometimes makes you feel like, okay, it's not me. There's just like a lot going on with this situation and it's okay to just pull back and you know, I would tell a lot of parents too. They're like, I just don't want to stop. We've already started. And I'm like, if you want to keep going, totally fine.

But if you want to just like pause, restart again when you have a break and you feel better, all you need to do is say, I use that first attempt as research. Now I know going in how he might react and how I can respond to that.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (08:04)
Yeah, for sure. And I think I had an idea of what it was going to look like. And then three or four days in when I'm like, this is terrible. And then I just started using, yeah, I used every technique or tool that was out there. I feel like made it that experience 10 times worse. yeah, yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he was just, I think part of it was like,

Katie Fenske (08:11)
This is torture.

Right? Because you were probably Googling, checking every group, like, my god, I'm going to try this and that that. And then they just felt like, mom, you're freaking me out here.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (08:34)
We don't have a ton of routine in our house or schedule. So he just kind of free plays. have, we're big on Montessori at our house. So he like has his works and he, he just kind of free, he's not even two yet. So just like free plays. And so I think the second it was like, every hour on the hour I'm being pulled away from whatever I'm doing to go to the bathroom. I think that alone was like what is happening. And, so I think for me after a week of trying it and.

Katie Fenske (08:41)
Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (09:02)
realizing the methods I was utilizing were not working for us. I think scaling back and being like, okay, maybe he's not ready or maybe this isn't the right time. But reeling back while still always offering him the opportunity to go to the potty still in the bathroom. We have a little step stool that has like an opening on it or you could put stuff in it. So he has his like...

Katie Fenske (09:18)
Mm -hmm.

Mm

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (09:26)
potty book, he has like a fidget in there. So like all of that stuff is still in there. He only uses it when he's in the bathroom. But always when we're in the bathroom changing a diaper, it's, you ready to sit on the potty? This morning he was interested, sat for two seconds then was out the door. So I think definitely meeting them where they are is...

Katie Fenske (09:42)
Yeah.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (09:48)
I imagine that that's key, but then also what do you do when you have a kid who needs to be potty trained to go on to preschool or go on to, yeah. How do you kind of manage with parents who are like, it's not working, nothing has worked and I need him to do this, him or her to do this by the timeframe.

Katie Fenske (09:56)
to preschool. Yeah.

have a deadline. Right. So my kids all had to be potty trained by three because that's when they started preschool. I know that's like a big hot topic too, where people are like, can't require a preschool can't require a kid to be potty trained. Well, ours just wasn't licensed to change diapers. So they literally couldn't. So if a kid did have an accident, like you would get a phone call and say, your child had an accident come mostly with poop like peeing, they can say change your pants, do this.

so I just knew in my head, like I have to get them there by three. I always recommend starting with bare buns. So naked from the waist down. And instead of doing like a scheduled sit, like every 20 minutes, I'm to make them sit for the first, like two days. I just waited for my kids to have an accident. And that's when I would say, go sit on the potty. You're going pee. So it was like intense. You cannot take your eyes off your kid, but you also don't want to be like freaking them out.

So it was like, anytime they were in the playroom, I was in the playroom. When they were in the kitchen, I was in the kitchen. But you really want to catch them the minute they start peeing and say, you're peeing. Go put it in the potty. Just so they start connecting that feeling. I always tell clients, I'm like, the first day the goal is peeing without a diaper. Like, if it's on the floor, that's fine. You're not going to say like, yay, you peed on the floor, great. But you just want them to get comfortable because we are seeing such a huge uptick of kids who are

anxious about peeing and will hold their pee for like eight hours. So they're super uncomfortable and they just burst in. don't know if it's like COVID babies. I don't know what it is, but there's a huge uptick. And that's where you start seeing the resistance. Like go sit down and they're like, no. And then they kick and scream. More so it's that anxiety that's just like, I'm not really sure what my body's supposed to be doing. I know I'm supposed to go potty in the toilet or the potty. I know mom's telling me to do that. I'm not supposed to go on the floor, but I just.

can't figure out how to get my body to do it. And that's scary for kids. So first day, I say, just catch them going pee. And that's what you work on. And as you go, it starts clicking.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (12:10)
So have you noticed, well firstly, I definitely identify with all of that. I think my son is so used to being autonomous in our house that when I was like there right by him, he loved to have me there, but then was like, why are you here?

Katie Fenske (12:23)
Yes. My oldest, think that's what freaked him out so much. He's like, why do you keep asking me if I have to go poop? I definitely have to. Like, I'm showing you all the signs I have to, and I'm freaked out. But you're like, freaking me out, mom. Like, I couldn't. I had to set a timer for my third. This is what I learned by the third time. I'm going to set a timer, and I'm not going to mention the word potty for 45 minutes. I said it once, like, when you need to go pee, we're going to use the potty. And then for 45 minutes, I didn't say anything. Because otherwise, every two seconds, I'd be like, do you have to go pee?

Wait, are you sure you don't? If you have to go pee, go to the potty. And he would have been like, I am over this potty thing.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (12:58)
Yeah, I think it winds up turning into like a you thing. I mean, you're the grownup that kind of leads the charge on it, but like my son would pee and then not notice he was peeing until he was stepping in it. we wound up putting, yeah. Yeah, right, right. So what we wound up doing was putting like a thin pair of pants on him and so that he would.

Katie Fenske (13:01)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Yep. And that's so normal. That's so normal for kids just to be clueless. They're used to going in a diaper and not even realizing it. Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Feel it?

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (13:26)
at least notice when he was going. And so he would tell us, have it. And then once we'd come near him to change them, he was like, no, because he knew he'd have to go sit on the potty after. So I think it just was like overcomplicated. But I think that idea of just like going bare bones, if you will, and just doing no pants, kind of just watching, seeing what's happening and then kind of moving forward after that point, I feel like sounds easy.

Katie Fenske (13:39)
too much. Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (13:56)
Easy enough.

Katie Fenske (13:56)
It's exhausting. It's exhausting. mean, I always like went in going like, okay, we can do this. We can do it. Day one, you're like, yeah, I got this. Day two, you're like, yeah, I got this. By day three, you're like, my God, I got this. Can't we just put a diaper back on? There are moments where you're like, why did we decide to potty train him? If I wasn't potty training, we could be at the park for four hours and I wouldn't have to think about it because he's in a diaper and now I have to think about it.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (14:07)
Yeah. Yeah.

Katie Fenske (14:21)
But once you get over that initial hump, like the first week, and then you get to two weeks, and then you get to the month mark, and you're like, OK, yes, this is easier. I had this moment about a month ago. We got all the kids in the car. We were going to this Lego festival thing. It was an hour drive, about a 45 minute drive. And as we were driving there, I went, my gosh, I didn't even make all my kids go to the bathroom before we got in the car. We're at the point where I not fixated on it anymore.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (14:24)
Mm -hmm.

Katie Fenske (14:49)
For a long time I was, but I was like, my gosh, like they'll be fine for 45 minutes. We're okay. I realized I made it. made it.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (14:49)
Yeah.

That's awesome. Yeah, that's like when people are like, my God, when you can go around without an enormous diaper bag and just have like your own bag, like it's next level.

Katie Fenske (15:05)
I did that when my third was potty trained. I treated myself to like a nice leather bag. Cause I had been wanting one for so long, but I'm like, I have the diapers and the wipes and all this. And I treated myself. That was my like, you did it. You potty trained three boys. huh. Yep. Yep.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (15:16)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you definitely deserve it's like a push gift of a different kind. So what are some of the my first question is what are like the timeframes that you would say in your experience work best? know some people are like take the four take a four day weekend, you're in the house, you're doing the potty training and you're done in three or four days.

Other people utilize like a month method. the first week, this is what it looks like second week and all of that. What kind of work have you noticed works best for most?

Katie Fenske (15:48)
Yeah.

So all kids are very different. If you have a kid that potty trains in three days, like, go buy a lotto ticket because that's, you're lucky. You're very lucky. So with mine, I usually, so I was working with all of mine. So I did have to take off a little bit of time. I, for my last one, I booked my potty training around spring break because I knew like, okay, I'm going to have a week off from work. So that is going to help.

But usually, if you can take off a Friday, Monday of a weekend, you can get a lot done in those four days. Now, if your kid goes back to daycare on a Tuesday, you might have to adjust your method a little bit versus the mom who's home and can stay home lot. For me, it was mostly three days pretty much at home. By my third, it was like, we've got school pickups, so you are getting in the car. And I have my puppy pad. I've got, I'm prepared for this.

But I also prepared myself mentally, like, accidents are going to happen. That is fine. You can get through this. You've got five pairs of shorts in the car, so you're OK. So usually, like, three to four days at home. And then if you can be with your child after those four days, that's helpful. Because usually, like, that week time is you're going about your normal day, but you're really in potty training mode. You're still thinking about, like, when did he go last? OK, how much does he had to drink? Like, it's really on your mind for.

I would say the first week or two. I always felt like after potty training for a month is when I was like, I didn't think about it for the last hour. my gosh. Like, yes, we're leaving the house. I'm going to make him go. But it's like, when I'm home, I kind of like, relax a little bit. I would say the first three to four days intense at home. Then you've got like a week of really sticking to those boundaries. Week two, you're like, OK, let's test the limits a little bit. Like, can he self -initiate, which is telling you they need to go?

or does your child still need you to take them? Generally, I don't make kids sit to pee. But then in those first couple of weeks, you're like, OK, it's been an hour and a half. Let's go do a potty try. So when I know they need to go, it's OK to sit them down and have them pee on demand. So that probably doesn't sound very good to parents. like, what do mean one to two weeks and then a month? But that is more realistic.

Like if I said your child would be fully potty trained in three days, I would be doing a disservice to people because it's not really, it's not a three day thing.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (18:22)
Yeah. And I think having like a month timeline gives you a ton of flexibility. So yeah, maybe your kid is potty trained in three or four days, but there's going to be accidents. There's going to be needing to reinforce the routine, all of that. So I think a month is flexible to every kid at every age to kind of be successful.

Katie Fenske (18:32)
orderly.

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

And every statue, because some are with grandma, some are out of daycare. And I will say, all three of my boys did not poop until day three of potty training, which is totally normal. A lot of moms are like, my god, they haven't gone yet. I'm like, yeah, because they're holding it, because this is weird. It's different for them. They're not really sure about this. So if you say, OK, we're going to be fully potty trained in three days, you've got most likely one poop. And some kids need more practice than that.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (18:47)
Right.

So speaking of ages, every kid is different obviously, but what are some of the average age ranges you are seeing the most success?

Katie Fenske (19:19)
I would say in between two and three is a great age to potty train. Could you start earlier? Sure. Could you start later than three? Sure. But that's like generally where I've seen the most success. It is kind of alarming right now. I just got, so my youngest son started TK, so transitional kindergarten. And they, so he's four. It's all the kids that are turning five this year.

They sent home like a toileting procedure or policy for the district that goes to kindergarten and TK. So five, four and five year olds that basically said like, is your child wearing like a pull -up to school? Is, does your child need assistance going to the bathroom? Does your child like have accidents still? And saying that like, if your child does, like we will assist them, we will help them. And it just like kind of blew my mind a little bit that five year olds.

Like no judgment to parents, because I also, as I was thinking about this, like how can there be a five -year -old in a pool at that school still? That's very difficult for teachers. As a former teacher, I would have been like, this is too much. But you look at what our society is now, we've got working moms. We've got people spreading the message that just wait till they're ready. They'll potty train on their own. Kids don't normally just like wake up and potty train themselves. Yes, wait till they're ready, but like.

and five -year -old is not waiting till they're ready. That's like, you can step in and do it. But again, how do these working moms do it? They can't take a week off to potty train. So I had some sympathy for these parents, but also kind of surprising, like, five -year -old still in the diaper. That must be very challenging. So I would say to most parents, if your child is two, start doing your research.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (20:44)
Yeah, sometimes you've got to just get them going.

Katie Fenske (21:11)
figuring out what method you want to use, how you want to do it, when you want to do it. Because a good rule is pick a time when you can block off a four -day weekend or something. Or don't do it right before you're going to take a trip. If you have a three -year -old, then mark it on the calendar a little sooner, because you want to get it going. And 3 and 1 half kids have been potty trained. But I do see a lot of clients coming to me with older kids, I think, because a lot of the older kids will show a little bit more resistance, which the younger ones.

you tend to have a little bit less.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (21:45)
Yeah, it's funny you mentioned like the COVID babies. I'm thinking immediately of my two nephews, they're twins. One of them potty trained super easy and the other one did not. They were born right in the middle of COVID. so the world was just, yeah. Yeah. So I mean, the world was just so crazy for so long. And I think that that like has that level of anxiety or like unsureness. I mean, I'm no psychiatrist or psychologist, but imagine that has to have some effect.

Katie Fenske (21:57)
And you would think they're twins. They're going to be like exactly the same, right?

Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Neither am I, but I was like, there's something. Yeah.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (22:15)
Right. Yeah. And so I think at that four or five age range, whether they're entering into like, four year old preschool or doing like the TK, that's a big transition time. So I imagine that there's something psychologically that like is kind of butting up against each other. Yeah, my

Katie Fenske (22:30)
Right, right. And I will say too, like, I got that letter and I'm like, my gosh, kids in, but I still worry. Like I asked my son, like, Hey, did you see the bathroom at school? Okay. Did you go pee? I'm so worried. Like, what if he's too keen to ask? And he has an accident school and here I am the body trainer and they're like, yeah, your kid had an accident. So I still worry about it too.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (22:44)
Right. Yeah. Yeah, fair. Fair. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. My one nephew

Katie Fenske (22:53)
And I went in with my oldest. He checked off every, he's ready to potty train. He was so scared to poop. And then any time he was wearing pants or underwear, he would just poop his pants. So then when it came to my second one, I'm like, OK, he's speech delayed. He's very sensitive. This is going to be so much harder. He was like, you want me to poop in that potty? OK. Should I go now? Or do you want me to? Like, he was so much easier.

And you would have thought, he's speech delayed. He's going to be a little bit behind. He was my easiest. You just never know.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (23:23)
That's so funny. How do parents fare when they have multiple kids figuring out like what the right way to do things is for each one? Even if they just have kids that are of similar age or like, like you're saying, like my first one, a little more challenging, second one super easy. How can parents adjust the way that they approach based on their type of child?

Katie Fenske (23:32)
Like with twins, with twins or

Yes, okay.

that personality. Well, I always say like, you don't know how your child's going to react until you actually take the diaper off. So thinking like my son pooped, no problem in a diaper. And he would tell me like, poop in my diaper. So I'm like, this will be easy. And then taking that diaper off, he like literally the first time he pooped, it was on day three. He had been holding it for hours. I was like on guard waiting for him. He started pooping and ran through the house screaming, crying because he was so scared.

And so here I am chasing after him as it's coming out on the floor. It was a disaster. But I'm like, I never would have predicted that that's how he would react. into my third, I prepared myself. OK, if he's really scared, then I'm going to be super supportive and nurturing. And I'm going to stay really calm. Because my oldest, he's running through the house pooping. And I'm like, stop!

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (24:11)
buddy.

Yeah.

Katie Fenske (24:35)
my third, was for like, like I tried not to mention it. Like he got really scared again about pooping. said, mommy poop. I'm like, okay, let's go sit down. Mommy will help you. And I knew if I forced him to sit, if I held him down, like he would not go. So it was like, you sat down on the potty and then got right back up and said no. And I just went, okay, thanks for trying. Let's come back when you need to go. And we did that probably 15 times until he finally went. But I just knew like if he is scared, how I needed to handle that.

need the boundaries and the structure, and then some need like, like my son just wanted to like sit on my lap and cuddle with me. And I'm like, okay, we'll do that until we got to stick you on the potty.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (25:04)
of a schedule.

Yeah. Aw.

Yeah, right. Yeah, my son is a mix of the two. So I think on our next time around, think somehow matching the two is going to be more helpful the second time around. So anything else that you're seeing in potty training that you think is important for moms, dads, grandmas, grandpas, anybody to know about?

Katie Fenske (25:23)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think just to be patient with the process, knowing that it might take longer than your friend's kid or your neighbor's kid, and that's fine. think the mom guilt, the mom judgment, when you're like, I'm going to start potty training, and someone goes, how's it going? You're like, not so well. You feel like a failure. So just know it's going to take as long as your kid needs to take, and that's fine. Just be patient, but just be consistent with it. Because there were so many moments where I'm like,

I just want to quit right now. just want to, like, a lot of parents are like, should I just put a little diaper on them when we go to the park and then we come home? I'm like, yeah, that's easier. It's so much easier, but it's okay to have accidents. Prepare yourself when you go out to just have four changes of clothes, lots of wipes. If there's an accident, just say, clean it up, go on to the next one. So, yeah.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (26:25)
Yeah, yeah, I love that. think, yeah, being patient with your child, obviously, but then being patient with yourself as well is huge. Yeah, it's almost a guarantee.

Katie Fenske (26:32)
You probably will lose your mind at some point. Like I totally admit to doing it like, why I just took you to the bathroom. Why did you go now? And then you're like, okay, just move on. Just move on. We've all been there.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (26:44)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I want to chat with you a little bit more about your podcast. So you talked a little bit about how you got started with it. how did that kind of evolve into podcasting? Where did you start and

Katie Fenske (26:48)
Mm -hmm.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (26:58)
kind of walk me through how you started and where you are today.

Katie Fenske (27:02)
Okay. So when my husband asked me what I wanted to do, I had this sense of like, just know I need to help moms. So the, think that year is when I joined like a mom's group and that was kind of a lifesaver for me. That Tuesday morning, that just like hour long meeting was like, this is what I was missing. Like I needed just that connection with moms. So somehow I was like, I want to give back somehow and be that for other moms. So then the idea of

chatting with other moms came just I just love meeting moms at parks and my best friend When our kids were little little they're all in school now So we don't do this anymore But she I would go to her house like every other day and the kids would play in the afternoon we do dinner together because our husbands worked late and then go home bathe the kids and go and the just the chance to just chat with them and mom was like Heaven for me. So originally my goal was to have her as my co -host but you know mom life and trying to organize six kids just

It's too complicated. I was like, I think I'm going to start a podcast. But then it was like, what do I call it? And I knew I wanted something just about moms, don't have to be perfect. It's OK to make mistakes because I have made plenty. But that was really hard for me at the beginning. I just felt like I'm a woman. I want to be a mom all my life. This is going to be great. I'm so prepared. And then I wasn't prepared for how hard it was. And I was really hard on myself about that. Like, your child should be sleeping because you read that sleep book.

Like, why isn't he following that schedule at three weeks old? So I toyed with a bunch of different names, but then something came up when I was at my friend's house, my friend that I was spending my afternoons with. It was actually when my oldest was potty training. He pooped his pants in her backyard, and I was like cleaning up. I came out so frustrated, and I was just like, ugh, why isn't he getting it? And she was like, Katie, don't worry about it. Everyone burns their first pancake. And I was like, ugh, that?

just took all of that stress away. And I was like, you're right. I don't need to be perfect right now. I don't have to know what I'm doing. I have one child. I'm figuring this out. So I wanted my podcast to be more about not necessarily experts coming on telling you this is how to do it, but moms who can support each other and talk about their mistakes and learn from them. So it officially launched. Let's see. It's a year and a half

March of 20, what would that be? 2023 is when I put out the first episode. And I just love just chatting with moms. It's my favorite thing. Like I'll get off a recording. My husband's like, how'd that one go? I'm like, it was so fun. We totally hit it off. I think we're going to do a virtual coffee date. Like, I just love it. It's so fun.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (29:47)
Yeah, I love that. It's very similar to the starting of my podcast. that's always exciting. So obviously I found you from the potty training, but digging into everything, the podcasting side, was like, my, I was like, my God, this is awesome. And I feel like it's very similar to how I started my podcast and that I always knew I wanted to be a mom and wanted to be in a mom space, but like, I didn't know what that looked like. And yeah, I very much

Katie Fenske (29:53)
Mm -hmm. I hope you have a podcast too.

Mm -hmm.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (30:14)
love chatting with people. And I did take taking kind of like the expert professional route. And I am a researcher, I love to know more and also want moms to feel validated and having different types of guests and speakers and experts and whoever so that whatever your life experiences or whatever area you're going into.

I wanted people to feel like one, could take something away from it to either research more about or be like, okay, this resonates with me. I feel validated. And if one mom is like, I, yep, that's me. I get it. I feel for you. I understand. Or another mom that was like, my God, I didn't know other moms felt this way. So I definitely identify with that. Yeah. Yeah. And I think

Katie Fenske (30:49)
you

Yep.

Yeah. I know. feel like my topics are like all over the place and everyone says like niche down, niche down where I'm like, but I like talking about baby registries and pregnancy, but I also want to talk about menopause. So we're going to cover everything.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (31:08)
Yeah.

Yes, yes, that's a, It's so funny you say that, because I was, so I took a, so I podcasted before I had a baby. So it was a year before I had a baby. It's like, I have a ton of questions. I don't necessarily want to ask the people I am friends with or family these in -depth personal questions, but I still have them and want to ask them. So I was like, whatever, I'll start a podcast and just.

Katie Fenske (31:32)
Mm -hmm.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (31:38)
started. so then I wound up having my son I podcasted for about six months after that. And was like, I can't do this. I need to take a break. Yeah. So I took a break and I'm relaunching the podcast. But it's so funny you mentioned that because I was like, I don't have a niche. Like I talked to everybody from every, every walk of life, a professional, a mom, whoever. And I had to like kind of reel it back for myself to be like, this is why you started the podcast. Like this is you wanted to reach

Katie Fenske (31:44)
This is a lot.

Right.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (32:04)
all moms in all areas and all walks of life. And I think while having more of an itch might get me more followers and subscribers and all of that. Yeah, yeah, it might make those a little higher. I feel like there's room for everybody. I think like a personality type you kind of vibe within a podcast or I think that really for me really sells it.

Katie Fenske (32:12)
Right. The download numbers. Yep. Yeah.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (32:29)
we could sit down and have coffee together and just chat. And that's kind of coming back to the podcast now and relaunching this fall. That was kind of my focus. Like anybody I had on the podcast, I just wanted to be able to like go to coffee with and chat for an hour. And that's kind of the refocus I want to have is similar to you in that like, I just want to hang out and talk about things we're interested in. And if one person can

Katie Fenske (32:49)
Mm -hmm.

Yes!

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (32:57)
get some interesting fact or knowledge out of the conversation, great. If you feel like, yeah, that's me, I get where you're coming from and want to support other moms or that mom who's like, didn't know. Parenthood can be so isolating at times. So I feel like if another person can be like, I also feel this way, I didn't know other people felt this way, like my job is done.

Katie Fenske (33:13)
hopefully.

Right. That's totally it. Like I call my momversations because I just want to be like talking with other moms, especially to like my cousin and I were kind of talking a little bit about like, okay, sex after having babies. And we were just like, wait, okay, you feel that way too? I'm like, then other moms are going to feel that way. Like things that don't get talked about much, you know? Yeah. And I'm still like getting comfortable like talk about, like, okay, my mother -in -law listens to this. So let's see how much we're going to share.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (33:25)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. The hotter topics that aren't always like out there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Katie Fenske (33:53)
But it's true, like having another mom that you can feel like, she gets me. She gets how I'm feeling. At any stage. At any stage of motherhood. Because now I'm entering like this new stage. And I'm like, this is such a different, like, it's weird to feel like I don't have little babies at home anymore. And then like, I'm excited about that because now I have all this freedom. But I'm also like, I see this mom at the grocery store. I'm like, you're carrying your baby in the little snuggly. And I don't have that anymore. It's just, it's such a weird feeling.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (33:59)
Yeah, for sure. Yes, yes, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, and yeah, and that's kind of where I wanted to expand a bit on my podcast was in the beginning, it was very baby maternity pregnancy focused. Whereas now, family and friends, their kids are at same situation entering the school years and they're like on their last one. And I think there's a lot more out there.

Katie Fenske (34:30)
Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (34:44)
that people aren't talking about or feeling, again, isolated in that same experience. Like I'm excited that my kids are school age or I've been dying for them to go to school, but I'm still mourning this timeframe of them being little and not having that anymore, deciding we're done having kids and kind of, Yeah.

Katie Fenske (35:00)
Yeah.

That was a big one. my gosh. Yeah.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (35:08)
Yeah, so I totally identify with where you're coming from and I've listened to a few episodes and just love that it's just a chat. Yeah, yeah, I love it.

Katie Fenske (35:15)
All over the place, all over. I just felt really proud of myself. I'm like, here I am, a 40 -some -year -old woman. And I thought I was going to teach all my life and just got very burnt out with that. And leaving that was scary. I was supposed to do this till I retire. And now I'm going to zero income. But just I figured out how to make a website and start a YouTube channel and post a podcast, which is a lot easier than you think.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (35:30)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

learn on your own, yeah.

Katie Fenske (35:45)
I didn't go to school for any of this or for Instagram influencing. I'm going to make a reel now of a clip of one of my... I felt very proud of myself that I figured all of that out.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (35:47)
Right.

Yeah, someone told me once, don't know if it was a podcast that I heard or someone had mentioned it. I used to work in a behavioral health space, so I was lucky to be around professionals all the time. But someone said that like at a certain point in your life, could be in the career you want to be in and the life stage you want to be in, but having these like small moments of mastery of, I've...

done this thing beginning to end and I feel accomplished by it can be a make or break to your like mental wellness and confidence in yourself to say like, I made my own website or I successfully uploaded the podcast or whatever it is. I think that can be a game changer.

Katie Fenske (36:18)
you

Yes.

Mm -hmm.

Yes. Yeah, the first time I booked the first paying client, was like, my gosh. my gosh. And I have a scheduling system. And it all worked. And the PayPal, yes, it felt very exciting.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (36:47)
I love that. Well, I'm so glad you were on the podcast. I loved being able to chat with you both about potty training and the mom side of things. But thank you so much for being here.

Katie Fenske (36:56)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm have to have you come on my podcast while talking about life. That'd be so fun.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (37:00)
Yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to. tell followers where they can find you. Website, podcasts, socials, wherever you want people to find you.

Katie Fenske (37:07)
my website is burppancakes .com. On social media, you can find my podcast at Burnt Pancakes with Katie. Any of the potty training stuff will be on my Instagram and TikTok. It's potty time. Or you can find it on my website as well. Somehow managing all of that. I don't know how I'm managing all of that and the kids.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (37:25)
Awesome. Yeah, it all just, it Anything that you have exciting coming up this fall.

Katie Fenske (37:33)
I really, really, really want to finish making my digital course for potty training. So that has been my goal for a long time. And people keep saying, why haven't you done it yet? I'm like, I have kids. they are off for summer vacation. They were so loud. I couldn't record any podcast. It was so hard. But I thought that would be another resource for parents that I don't think is really out there that could be very beneficial. So that's my next goal. And I'll have my podcast every Friday.

Jessica | The Mama Making Podcast (37:48)
Yeah.

Yeah, I love that.

thank you so much for being on.

Katie Fenske (38:03)
Thank you for having me.