The Mama Making Podcast

Meredith Brough | Sweet Slumber Time Sleep Training at any age

• Jessica Lamb, Meredith Brough • Season 3 • Episode 83

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In this episode of The Mama Making Podcast...

Jessica talks with Meredith, the creator of the Baby-Centered Sleep Method, about her unique approach to sleep training. Meredith shares her journey in developing a personalized, intuitive method that adapts to each child's temperament and individual needs, breaking away from traditional sleep training models. She highlights the importance of understanding a baby’s cues, fostering independence while maintaining a strong parent-child connection.

Meredith also debunks common myths about when to start sleep training and emphasizes the value of routines over rigid schedules, offering flexibility with wake and bedtimes. She discusses her coaching program, how she empowers others to adopt a calm, child-centered approach to sleep, and shares insights from her own podcast. 

This episode is packed with valuable tips for families navigating sleep training, with an emphasis on patience, intuition, and a loving approach.

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Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (00:01.006)
Hello everyone and welcome to the Mama Making Podcast. If you're new here, I'm your host Jessica. If you're not new, welcome back. Today I'm very excited to have Meredith here with us. Meredith is the creator of Baby -Centered Sleep Method and the voice behind the Sweet Slumber Podcast. Welcome Meredith and thanks for joining me.

Meredith (00:19.795)
Thank you, happy to be here.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (00:22.03)
So tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, your family if you want to share about your business, whatever you think is relevant and important about you.

Meredith (00:32.211)
All right, well, I am a mother of five kids and everyone always gives me lots of credit for that, but I only have one teenager left. I have four adult children. So hard work for the most part is behind me, you know, and now I'm just trying to hold on to them and see them as much as I can and be in their lives and sending off.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (00:43.086)
That's amazing.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (00:47.406)
Yeah.

Meredith (00:56.435)
to school and a church mission this fall and I'm gonna have one kid and it's such a part of my identity that I'm having a really hard time with this fix mission. I'm also a grandma, which is still a weird word for me because he's one and a half, but it's really fun. I get that a lot. I always hoped I'd have my mom's good skin. I think I do. Yay! But we all want that.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (01:04.046)
Yeah.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (01:09.198)
Yeah, yeah, and you do not look like a grandma to me.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (01:21.518)
I would agree, yes.

Meredith (01:26.031)
I am a very much a kid person. So that's why I have had kids. But it's also what I spent most of my life doing was spending time with kids, taking care of kids, being a nanny, running a daycare. And that was my thing for a long time. And doing that actually helped me stay home with my kids. And when they were all old enough to be in school, I decided I would work in the schools. And I had always kind of expected to be a teacher someday.

having not pursued my education as a young adult. But so this was kind of the plan. And I had this experience helping a mom who was really, really depleted, exhausted, sick. I was just helping her take care of her little girls while she was moving in. I noticed that the little girls were lethargic. They're twins. They're two months old.

and they were snacking, like just drinking one or two ounces every three hours and taking 15 minute naps every couple of hours. And the mom told me that night that it was so hard to take care of them. She didn't know what she was doing. And she felt like maybe she wasn't fit to be the mom and she should give them away. And I had done a lot of work in my business. Sorry, this is long as like introduction to me.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (02:50.59)
my gosh, no, that's what this is all about.

Meredith (02:52.915)
But I had done a lot of work with families in my daycare, helping them with sleep because my first was a rough sleeper. I read one book. I applied some principles with my second. And then the way that she slept so, so well is just made my life so beautiful and smooth and enjoyable. And I was in good moods and I felt healthy. So that's why I kept having babies. So this is something I just wanted to pass on.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (03:20.078)
Yeah.

Meredith (03:22.131)
to that daycare families. So anyways, I'm talking in circles here, but this is what I had on the table when I met this lady. I knew what was going on with her little girls and how I could help. And so I did. And because of the state she was in and the situation where she was serious about giving these girls up, my work changed her family's life big time. And it finally, I guess, opened my eyes and I realized this is really important and I have a gift and I should.

See if I could use it more often. So there's this little nudge in my head like, hmm, there's something to this. Within like a month, I had decided to become a sleep coach full time.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (04:03.214)
That's so amazing. I think people don't realize like how big sleep is in general for everybody. it's vital for us to thrive and, and just general life. But for these kids, it's everything. And then in turn for these parents, and if you're not gelling or able to figure it out, you have a lot of life circumstances you're thinking about and don't know where to start. I think having someone like you is so essential to these.

these families. So I'm sure that's one so rewarding and two, a huge push to you to get it going.

Meredith (04:40.339)
Yeah, and it's, I've always loved what I do. I've been doing this full time for seven years. And from the beginning, it just really lit me up. I used to meet with these retired CEOs, Scores, the company they helped small business owners. I used to meet with them to just get their advice, work on my plan and talk about different opportunities in the future. And they loved meeting with me because I was just like,

bubbling over with excitement. My passion just brimming over. And I've always been that way. And a few years ago, I met someone in a Facebook group who was wondering about my methods and my approach. And she asked me to teach her. And this was new territory for me. But I did. I taught her in another woman and I fell in love with that work. So that's what lights me up now is the teaching and the sharing and helping other people.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (05:34.766)
Yeah. So do you want to talk a little bit about what your method is and let's dive into that and then we'll chat about your next endeavor in coaching the coaches.

Meredith (05:49.555)
Yeah, sure. So because I was helping these families in my daycare, I was very careful about like, these aren't my kids. I'm going to be the most loving. But I was already doing things very, very kindly with my own children. The book that I read, I actually looked back at it with my fifth child and I didn't recognize it. I was like, what? OK, I must have really just skimmed this, but I've changed things and I've.

Customized, you know to each child and just always had a really loving approach. So when I started my business, I had my own sleep method it's not in the books just had my own and it's the way I taught little ones to fall asleep on their own and It allowed them to cry for like 30 seconds or a minute and then we would respond and We would calm them down if they got upset. So I was always very very responsive and we're gonna keep them calm but

I started working with families all over the world after about a year in the business because an Instagram influencer told everyone about me. I was exciting. It was super cool. You had to have clients all over the world. And I'm old school, where most of my life I didn't have a computer. So there was no internet until I had my, I mean, I had the internet, but I didn't even have a cell phone with data on it until I think after my fifth child. So this.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (06:53.774)
That's awesome.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (07:11.026)
Yeah. Yeah.

Meredith (07:14.867)
Being able to talk to people globally is incredible to me. But around that time, I just started working with extremely challenging kids that it was shocking. I was like, what? I don't know what I'm doing. I thought I was good at this. So I'm very determined and very creative. Of course, I had to do research. And of course, there is experimenting and relying on parents. But there's also a lot of listening to my intuition, my instincts, praying and just rethinking things. And so.

I learned to modify what I was doing based on a child's temperament. And most of the kids who need something creative are very sensitive, are very, very active. Some of them are grumpy. Some of them you just call high needs because they're just challenging kiddos. But these were the kids that I was working with so much. And at the time I was really, it was daunting. I sometimes wanted to just run.

I'd have these prayers where I was like, I don't want to do this. It's too hard. I want something like with instant gratification, you know. Yeah, but I stuck with it and it worked out really well because now it's my specialty. And if you think about it, those are the parents that are the most sleep deprived and the most anxious and the most desperate for help. And I'm not making light of that. Those are the people I'm most passionate about now because they need me the most.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (08:15.438)
Hahaha.

Something easier.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (08:41.806)
Yeah, absolutely.

Meredith (08:41.875)
So, yeah, so I guess just to answer your question a little bit, I learned that it was better to keep these kids calm, to be very sneaky actually, to make these subtle changes without them really noticing and just be very, very supportive and intuitive. So every single time a parent uses my methods, probably gonna look different because I want them to understand.

the process and the goals, but I want them to follow their own intuition. So I'm very big on keeping that connection, staying in tune, which most sleep approaches are not. So it's beautiful.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (09:21.006)
Yeah, that's what's coming to mind right away is that there's so many of these sleep, sleep approaches that are very by the book. And this is what you do. This is how long you do it. And that's kind of it. And it doesn't really account for one, your child's, like you said, your child's temperament or their personality or whatever your schedule is. but then at the very like day to day part of it, what do you do when your kid is sick?

Or if you're on vacation, how do you find the resources within this program specific method to stick with it and be successful for your kids? So I have so many friends and cousins and just acquaintances who have done sleep training.

And everyone has a different experience with every different method. But what I love about yours is that it's intuition -based. And I would love to hear you talk a little bit more about what that means and what it looks like for the clients that you work with.

Meredith (10:31.635)
Well, learning about temperament first is important because if you think about some of the situations parents run into, like hearing everybody say drowsy but awake, anyone with a very active baby or strong willed baby knows that if you try to lay down a child when they're drowsy and they've been nursing or being held or whatever it is, they're going to flip out. They're going to be mad. They're going to cry. They're going to be wide awake, whatever it is, it just doesn't work. And so people think that is impossible. But I actually have a method.

for those exact kids that teaches them draw a little bit awake. And some of the principles there are that we wanna make these slow changes without pushing kids. I actually have a couple of methods I've modified that I can share. The other ones are for my clients only. So for example, if I used pick up, put down, I would not make this strict rule that we're going to.

do this from now on. That's one of the biggest problems with that. The mentality out there is just, you know, they believe so strongly in consistency that they're going to overhaul everything on day one and you have to follow the same thing all through the night. That is a nightmare. And that is a great way to set yourself up for failure, put it lightly, because if you're miserable and baby's miserable,

I can't see people continuing something that's not really working or helping for days on end. So the key here is to understand that sleep methods are geared towards really easygoing babies. The ones that you guys all have access to. They were designed for the most laid back, the most chill kids who they work pretty well for. And so these will probably always be practiced because if you have a little one who's

got a very healthy nervous system, doesn't get very worked up, is very relaxed, you know, just look around the room if I'll sleep. They're the ones you can let them cry for a few minutes in their bed and they will sleep great for the rest of childhood. So if you can look at it like that, it helps you understand why it's still happening. But the problem is they're telling you to use that no matter what temperament. So back to what I was explaining with pick up, put down a very sensitive baby.

Meredith (12:52.851)
be overstimulated and not relaxed at all and not be able to go to sleep. If you keep picking them up, letting them cry, laying them back down and repeating that over and over. The creator of that method, Tracy Hogg is proud in the book she wrote, it's called Secrets of the Baby Whisper. She's proud of the 167 times she did it the first time and the 130 the second time and the

80 the third time and how this number keeps going down and she's doing this from bedtime all weekend long, you know, all through the night, the number keeps going down. That just absolutely wouldn't work for a very sensitive baby. It would not get them to sleep or they'd pass out from exhaustion and then maybe have an aversion to sleep, maybe aversion to their bed. So, yeah, those are two big problems there.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (13:38.862)
Hmm. Okay.

Meredith (13:46.803)
between what I said about the spirited active babies and the sensitive ones. Sensitive babies get fussy and upset when they're tired. So a parent who's trying to use asleep methods like, I can't ever move forward because when I try this with you, you just get really upset. So I've just learned how to accommodate all these little temperaments or personalities to keep them calm so we can move forward. So the way I would use pick up, put down would be that.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (13:56.302)
Mm, yeah.

Meredith (14:15.923)
Number one, it's a younger child because they actually have to lay down, right? We can't use that on a baby who's just going to constantly try to sit up or get up, right? So it's for a young baby. And the first day, if we're changing from feeding to sleep or rocking to sleep, that's a big, big shift. So just realize that putting baby in their crib and letting them lay there for a little bit, that's a new thing. We're just introducing it.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (14:25.358)
Right.

Meredith (14:45.459)
After doing that for a few minutes, you want to get your kid to sleep, you pick them up and feed them or rock them to sleep. The next day, let's see if we can extend that time babies laying there relaxing. And if baby fusses, then we pick them up and we calm them, lay them back down. Baby's mad, go sit down and feed. So you just want to keep building it. It could be that you're building the number of times you lay them down and pick them up, or it could be a time limit.

And I don't mean that in a strict way. I mean like a plan. So we're talking like, let's try this for five minutes today and maybe tomorrow we can try it for seven. And you just, what you don't understand is that building that time subtly, it feels good to you and baby. So you're not stressed. Babies are very susceptible to that stress we feel too. Babies relax so they're not freaking out thinking you're changing everything. And it helps you move forward.

it gives you that opportunity to keep building the time. And you know, this isn't an overnight thing, but if you have a baby who's very sensitive, very active, being able to change the way they fall asleep in two weeks or even three is very miraculous. So, you know, I think this is something that you expect to take a couple of weeks and you look back and say, wow, my gosh, look how far we came. This is pretty awesome. So.

I hope that kind of explained how it works. Just I think the key is remembering that as you're building that time that you work on this method, you get to go back to what baby's comfortable with. You save that nap. You save that bedtime and you get that baby calm and relaxed again and, you know, move on with your life and then continue being intuitive at night. I have always focused on just naps and bedtime for building those stronger independent sleep skills and then really encourage moms to be intuitive at night.

And independent sleep is not a cure -all. It's not, it's something that I think we should try because it can empower little ones to start self -settling, but it's not the cure -all.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (16:51.662)
So when you're saying baby, what age groups are you referring to?

Meredith (16:58.259)
Honestly, it doesn't really matter. So in sleep training, they're very big on certain ages, like when a baby's four months, when a baby's six months. That's actually not based on anything real. In fact, I did some reading last night about where the term self -soothing came from. And that was a study where some doctors were videoing babies and some of them were signaling and needing help to.

connect sleep cycles, some babies were not signaling and they coined this term self -soothing for those moments when babies would just connect sleep cycles on their own. And there was a woman who took this research and she studied how many times babies wake up at night and she saw that at three months so many were sleeping through the night and at six months so many were sleeping through the night and then.

did this weird math and just started teaching people that at six months, we can expect them to be ready to sleep through the night. And I think that's where that time came from. I think that's where the age came from. I'm sorry. I'm talking too much about that. My point is, is that when you're using very loving, supportive sleep methods, it doesn't matter how old the baby is, because we're not trying to agitate them or push them or.

make them be independent. I'm trying to foster independence and when I'm doing that in a very loving way. And so my take is usually the first month is a month of overwhelm and survival. And most moms are not going to be able to think about this extra thing. And so around a month when you're like, Hey, I really need some structure or this is getting bad. Let's start working on some of this stuff. And it can be a lot easier while they're younger.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (18:47.47)
How early, I mean, with the method that you do, I imagine you could start it right away. Maybe not the full independence with a newborn, but starting, being more aware of those timeframes. How early have you started this?

Meredith (19:07.379)
Well, I will say that if we go early, it's usually a seasoned mom who's been through it before and they're like, hey, I'd like to do things differently this time and I'm ready and baby's like one or two weeks old. And in those cases, I am trying to set up things like the circadian rhythm. Let's do what we can to help baby understand that day and night is different. So let's know the difference between.

a morning wake, sorry, I said that wrong. Let's have baby have a set morning wake time and let's go outside and have exposure to the sun and let's open the curtains and help them start to, you know, their bodies start to recognize those signs and prepare them because they don't, their bodies aren't regulated for the first few months. That's something that comes with time. And then,

you know, just helping them understand their baby's sleep cues, the ones that work for that child. There's some more subtle sleep cues that I think are really helpful for parents to know because the ones we hear about like yawning and rubbing eyes, some babies don't do those things. And some babies will actually stay awake way too long. A parent's expecting a baby to sleep 18 hours a day and they find that their child's the opposite. And a lot of times it just has to do with the parent missing the signs.

So that's a really good place to start because if a baby's awake too long, we're gonna end up with a colicky baby and a baby who's miserable and parents are miserable. They're definitely not gonna sleep well at night.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (20:48.686)
Yeah. And I think, again, it goes back to the intuition. I think every baby signs are going to be different. Yeah, there's some common ones, but I think everyone's signs are going to be different. And it's funny. I, with my baby, who's now 19 months, I solely focused on the intuitive part of it. And he didn't really have a sleep schedule. He just, and I have the luxury of.

working from home and having a flexible schedule. So he was able to kind of sleep when he was sleepy. And, and, when he went to my mom, when I went back to work, I didn't have a sleep schedule for him. So I was like, well, when he rubs his eyes and he starts to do X, Y, Z. And I saw this meme that was like,

like co sleeping non scheduled moms are like, well, when he closes his right eye and he grabs his toes and he rubs his eyes, that's when he's ready. But it's so funny because every kid does something different.

Meredith (21:50.195)
He does something different when he's tired.

Or you say that every child does.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (21:55.054)
Yeah, every, every kid is different. Like my sister has a baby who's six months younger than him and he does like this hair twirling and you know, he's ready when he starts doing the hair twirling. So it's, you, you almost have to go on intuition in that sense when you're looking for your baby's cues.

Meredith (22:13.779)
Yeah. And I find that some people get really stressed out when they're trying to fit their kid into a mold, you know, like, well, this is what they're supposed to do and they're not doing it. And that's the only thing they're watching for. So you have to be intuitive, especially with the sleep signs. But also you can be really intuitive like you were with the wake windows, with the nap situation. You don't have to follow a schedule. And a lot of babies are actually so irregular that a schedule is it's a goal, like way off, you know, like.

We don't worry about that for a while. And I've, I've worked with moms who have postpartum anxiety that trying to find my mouth, trying to follow a schedule or watch the clock or anything like that stresses them out of their minds. And so being intuitive, sounds like a dance. You're just more in tune with your child and you just know them. And honestly, that's how I create a schedule. I don't, I don't use charts. I don't use predetermined, you know,

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (22:42.51)
Yeah.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (23:05.358)
Mm -hmm.

Meredith (23:12.211)
predictors of awake windows and times and stuff like that. I don't, I always, always have mom observe baby, keep track of things for a few days. And then we figure out those cues and shape things that way. And most of my clients, little ones, won't have a schedule for a while because to have a schedule, you have to have a baby who wakes up around the same time every morning, which some babies will wake up early and then later. And you have to have a baby who will take,

consistent length of naps. So like, if one day it's 30 minutes, another, sorry, not day, but one period it's 30 minutes, later on it's an hour and a half and you know, it just shifts all over the place and from day to day it looks different. Trying to follow a schedule is really, really gonna stress you out if you have a baby like that.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (24:01.55)
Yeah. And I think it's important that you mentioned like moms with postpartum anxiety. That was me postpartum anxiety and depression. Thinking of a schedule, like I'm barely getting through the day feeling like, am I taking care of him correctly? Is he eating enough? Is he getting enough stimulation? The last thing I needed was to be like, okay, at nine, he, he can take a nap and he only has 15 minute timeframe.

to get ready and fall asleep by the time he, so like doing those rigid schedules were overwhelming to me. And I knew that very early on. So being able to be intuitive was great, but then there's really not like a rule book. So that's also hard as well. So I think all that to say, I think taking into account that there's so many other variables that are happening, whether it's like mom goes back to work or,

If someone came to help you have a postpartum doula or your mother, a mother -in -law is now back where they are from and you're on your own now. I think, or your schedules, work schedules are different, whatever it might be. I think, those are super important to take into account because they make a huge difference. Like if you just think about all the things that your life includes, obviously sleep and a sleep schedule is going to be impacted by your world.

So I think I imagine it's overwhelming for parents who want to get their kid on a sleep schedule. They're like, wait a minute, I have to be at work at 8 o 'clock. That means I have to, like you're doing the back time of like figuring it all out. So I think having a flexible, someone told me once, you don't need to have a schedule, you need to have a routine where it's being aware of around the time that this happens.

which was very helpful for me in early motherhood to think of it that way.

Meredith (25:57.875)
Yeah. I like that too. I tell parents that the wake time and the bedtime, there's a half hour leeway where we can still take advantage of the natural rhythms. So if the times are within that half hour, then nature makes things easier. And that's because baby's body becomes more predictable and regulated. Those systems or those times you're trying to follow, it's almost like,

Programming that into your baby's body or their brain or something. It's hard to explain But it's really cool now if you will follow those at least windows Then your baby will become more predictable that way and then your schedule starts to shape and that's what I meant when I said that's something to work on with a brand new baby and I don't start with baby should be up at 6 If a baby wakes at 6, that's that's our time. But if they're sleeping

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (26:31.406)
Yeah.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (26:43.694)
Mm -hmm.

Meredith (26:54.291)
until seven one day until nine 30 the next. Well, let's try to figure out like an average. What's the more natural wake time baby's getting and maybe ends up being that you have your baby awake by seven 30. But honestly, it makes the rest of the day better and things start falling into place and becomes more predictable. And it's really cool. There's something you said earlier that I wanted to touch on and trying to remember it was. Dang it. I think it's really important that we remember our babies.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (27:09.294)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Meredith (27:23.731)
are not robots and we should adjust ourselves and our thinking and our approach and what we hear and what we read isn't always going to work. And there's lots of good ideas out there. I remembered what I was going to tell you. I had a client tell me recently that...

She's very flexible. She's very laid back. That stuff's easy for her. You know, like you are, you're just kind of going with the flow and this is working really well. That's, that's easy for her. But when she learned more about structure and more about trying to be a little firmer and all of these things and why that mattered, it really helped her and it helped her child sleep better, helped him nap better. And all these things fell into place. And she just pointed out to me that.

It's important for us as sleep consultants to recognize this is a flexible mom. I'm going to teach her about structure structure, or this is a really structured mom. I'm going to teach her about flexibility. Isn't that cool? Because you need.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (28:25.326)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And I was, yeah, you do. And I was, I was very lucky. I have a really easy baby. He's kind of a crazy toddler, but his sleep has always been really good. He, I like to say that it was, he was in the NICU for a bit. It was the one positive of being in the NICU for a little bit was he had to schedule when he came home. So, but either way, he has always slept really well. He has done well with the flexibility.

Meredith (28:48.243)
Okay.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (28:54.798)
I could have another kid who needs that structure. So again, every kid's so different. So I, for one, would am very flexible with his sleep and his schedule in general, but I could have another kid who's not. So I would have to relearn how to do all of those things with a kid who needs something different. So, yeah, you're absolutely right.

Meredith (29:16.883)
But I'm glad you said that because it is all about the temperate. And when you have one child, you're just not quite aware of that. You're like, okay, well, this is going great. I don't know what I did right. I love this about my kid. Or you're looking around you and you're thinking, why is everyone else? Why is everyone else's kids sleeping so well? And mine isn't. It's my fault. Did I do something wrong? But when you have two kids,

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (29:20.206)
Mm -hmm.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (29:28.59)
Yeah, yeah.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (29:38.606)
Mm -hmm.

Meredith (29:43.315)
you can compare them and see, my gosh, you're so different from each other. Even your sleep is so different. And the thing that I did with you is not working for you. And not only is it going to be that way with sleep, it's going to be that way with everything. Even the way you teach or discipline or work with your kids has to be different per child.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (29:48.75)
Mm -hmm.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (30:02.766)
Yeah, absolutely. So I want to kind of segue that into your coaching program. So being that it's intuition -based and child -centered, how do you, well, one, how did you decide you wanted to start coaching or consulting? And then how do you teach others to kind of put forward this child -centered, calm, loving approach?

with other families.

Meredith (30:32.115)
It's a good question because it was hard for me to translate or transfer what I was doing. Honestly, that was my biggest hurdle when I started my business. I was really struggling with I know what I do, but how do I pass this on to mom? So I was definitely learning as I went with each family, figuring that out. I did a lot of writing things out and then.

Duplicating those, you know, like, okay, here's some instruction. I'm gonna copy and paste that and use it for everybody You know, this is interesting because there's sleep Consultant programs besides mine People were getting certified. I didn't even know that that was a thing when I started my business and a lot of those are based on tradition and just old old practices not necessarily science and so I don't regret that I didn't take one because I

I was able to form my own approach. I've done all the research and I've, you know, with my background in childcare, I understand what kids need to thrive. I know about development and I know, you know, so much, but I've learned a ton more over the last several years. So stage two of me trying to figure out how to pass this on wasn't just to mothers. It was a sister. My sister wanted to learn how to do this work.

And she is actually more of an assistant and helped me support clients, but she would jump on calls and she would try to understand what was going on. And after like three or four months, she said, I can't figure it out. And I just don't know what you're doing. I don't have a gift. So I'm going to move on. I'm going to try something else. And I was so sad because I didn't figure it out with her, you know. But a couple of years later, I had a membership program and I was.

showing up weekly making workshops. And I had experts come in weekly on all things motherhood and childcare and all the things. And one of my students ate up every single thing that I produced. I created every video, every workshop, every anything. And she was hungry for more. And so she became my actual first student where she was applying the things she learned on her kid.

Meredith (32:53.619)
she started helping other people. I started mentoring her and showing her what to do. And then this other lady I mentioned earlier, asked me if she could take one of my digital courses from, from moms to understand my methods. And I decided after her, cause other people were coming to me and asking too, that I would take all of these workshops and all of these digital programs and kind of divide them up, split them up, somehow organize them.

and that we would just meet weekly and discuss so that while they were learning, I could answer the questions. And as they were applying them and helping families, I could give them guidance. And that was really a great way for me to learn how to pass on what I know and intuitively do, partly because they were already sleep consultants or doulas or like they had a background, they had a foundation and I was really just adding onto it. So that was so useful. What about a year later?

moms were coming to me who didn't have this background. And I realized I needed to create a new course and I did. And it went really well. And for me, it's just a matter of like figuring out the order. I can teach you all the things you need to know, but I have ADHD. I hope that's not too funny to everyone else. It's really funny to me because I know that I think out of order. I write out of order. I.

you know, if I email someone, I might jump to the middle and then I realized I need to go to the beginning and then maybe I'm at the end and I'm mixing, you know, I'm trying to make order of things. So yeah, that was hard for me, but we made a really good program and then someone helped me polish it up. And this program that's actually launching next week, someone's helping me again. And we've got a completely different order this time. It's so funny. It, but it makes so much sense. I love it. I think the thing that I've changed the most is.

we are tackling it as this is what an easygoing baby needs, and this is what a challenging baby needs. Temperament is one of the early sections or sessions, but as I start teaching them, newborns, infants, toddlers, children, we're just addressing it that way as these babies need something and these babies need something different. So it's really fun to evolve and to figure out what works for everybody else.

Meredith (35:20.435)
and to see my students go out there and help families and do it well. I really enjoyed this. I hope that wasn't too much information.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (35:25.23)
Yeah, that's so awesome. No, not at all, not at all. Do you want to talk a little bit more about the program that you have right now that you're in the middle of launching?

Meredith (35:36.947)
Yeah, so I assume that this is gonna go after we launch, but there will be another session next fall. So if you're interested, definitely look into it. I am going to launch on, we're talking now in May, and it'll be May 27th, and people will just go in and very beginning, they're diving into understanding what babies need to thrive. So we're talking about co -regulation, responsive parenting.

intuition and instincts and understanding the why and attachment is huge too. That's actually the first video that they watch and what can we do as sleep consultants to support all of those goals and those needs and what can we do as sleep consultants to support the mothers so that they not only understand that stuff but rely on their intuition and their instincts and I'm just really excited.

about I've done that before, but I was basing it more on like here read these articles and this time I've got all these videos where I'm teaching and then we go into sleep neuroscience and temperament and Health and sleep disorders and then we dive into the age groups really excited So you asked me to talk about that and I went back to what the program looks like I'm just we meet there's a digital program 16 weeks long

And we meet weekly for actually 20 weeks while they're learning, while they're supporting people. And I'm mentoring, but I also look at it as like a mastermind where the other students give their ideas and problem solve and help. And everyone grows in confidence that way. And we get that sense of community and friendship and support for one another. It's really a beautiful experience.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (37:25.07)
Yeah, that's so exciting. And I love that the program has kind of evolved as well. and that it incorporates so many different areas. I mean, as we've touched on throughout the podcast, or throughout chatting, there's so many different variables to life and obviously that's going to impact sleep and baby sleep. So I think talking about like health of the mother and then like the background, the neuroscience to it. And then,

integrating that in your actual methods, I feel like is going to be great for your consultants, one, obviously, but then for your moms who need a little more education on it. Yeah, it sounds like an incredible, incredible program.

Meredith (38:13.427)
Thank you. Yeah, there's a lot of things, advantages that my students have from taking the program, from having those responsive methods, intuitive methods, and a lot of tools to help them build mama, daddy, parent confidence and give them peace of mind, because there's nothing better than knowing that what you're doing every day is going to help your child thrive.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (38:40.526)
Yeah, absolutely. So do you want to chat a little bit about your podcast?

Meredith (38:47.475)
Sure. That's also evolved. Yeah, you're testing, right? I was going to say, when a parent goes in there to check out my podcast, you will find...

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (38:50.414)
Yeah, as it as it always does, I'll be the first to admit it.

Meredith (39:03.315)
probably 40 episodes that are all about you and parenting and I focus more on mothers because I'm very passionate about mothers but there's something there for everyone.

you'll find some of this talk about intuition and instincts and even my faith and how that taught me as a mother. But there's a lot of insight about the sleep methods, about even shifting away from a sleep training mentality, what that looks like and why should shift away. And that's just mostly understanding how important it is to stay in tune and to not shut that off and never follow strict rules that are like,

You can't, you can't, you know. And then just, yeah, so there's a lot about sleep. There's a lot about temperament and there's advice for a mom having with a new baby. But I also talk to experts about other topics relating to motherhood like you. I think it's so important to to share information and insight to help parents feel really well equipped and understand their little ones. I even have.

for episodes where I'm interviewing other experts that are like child development, childcare, parenting experts, just to talk to them about what kids need to thrive. It's actually called What's Wrong with Old Fashioned Sleep Training, I believe. And I did not create that as a scare tactic or as a shaming tool. It's really because parents aren't educated enough on, you know, they're gonna get advice from friends, family, and a doctor that says do cry it out or fervor.

You need to know more. You need to know more.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (40:42.19)
Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say. Yeah. It's all just secondhand advice or a pediatrician that's like, is it maybe sleeping? If not, figure it out. So that's great to have so many different angles as to, how you can pull that all together.

Meredith (40:53.107)
Right. Yeah.

Meredith (40:59.923)
Yeah, and two of the women I interviewed remember being sleep trained. Yeah, one of them, she was like 18 months and she remembers that. And she talks about how that affected her and her fears and that she still sleeps with her covers up like this because she doesn't feel safe. And then the other lady, I think she was four or five, which is strange, but she talks about how that affected her relationship with her mom that she can...

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (41:04.494)
Wow, interesting.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (41:17.71)
Interesting.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (41:23.438)
Yeah.

Meredith (41:28.883)
actually tie back this unresponsiveness to not feeling like she can rely on her mom, not feeling like she can turn to her. Very interesting. But so I was talking about the beginning part of my podcast. The last 20 episodes have been geared towards sleep consultants and people who want to take my course. And there's still some really good interviews in there for mothers like.

I talked to someone about postpartum depression and anxiety, and I have my own episode where I talk about experiences I've seen or things I've been through with clients and then some other health topics. I interviewed a doctor. Yeah, so enjoy it. There's so much there for you. And if anyone's thinking of taking my certification course, it's a really, really great way to get to know me and my method and see how you feel about the whole thing.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (42:24.078)
Yeah. Well, yeah, we'll put your certification course. I believe it'll be off and rolling by then, but by the time this episode comes out. But we'll have a link to that in the show notes, along with maybe your fall dates and then the podcast as well. I would love to have you back on to talk more about what it has looked like as a mom of five to launch your own business and how.

Meredith (42:37.267)
Yes.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (42:51.31)
entrepreneurship has looked, being a mom as well. I think it's a really hot topic right now and, everybody does it differently. And, being that you're more, baby centered or, or focused on more like calming energy. I'm sure your, your, approach to business has been a little bit different.

Meredith (42:55.731)
Yeah.

Meredith (43:09.971)
Give it to kids, it's true.

Meredith (43:14.291)
Yes.

Meredith (43:19.347)
Yeah. And then having ADHD, I promise it's different.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (43:21.614)
Yeah. Yeah. I might have you on to talk about ADHD as well. Yeah.

Meredith (43:25.075)
That sounds good to me. And I just just insert this thought that if I have a waiting list of people, I might I might launch my certification course sooner. So definitely check it out and check out because I'll post that. I'll keep that updated.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (43:37.134)
Okay. Yeah.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (43:42.382)
Okay, and how many spots do you usually have open for that?

Meredith (43:45.843)
it's going to scale. So as, as it grows, I'll be hiring people to help me. So right. It's not limited right now. I'm looking to have 15 people and then I'm doing three groups for them. So I'm still trying to keep those group meetings down to three, four, five people so that they have a lot of time with me and they can get to know each other and become a close knit group.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (43:51.598)
Okay.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (44:05.902)
Mm -hmm.

Awesome. Well, thank you for being on today. We have obviously just brushed the surface of what you do, but if you wouldn't mind telling everybody where to find you, socials, email, whatever you want to pass on.

Meredith (44:28.339)
Sure. So my main website is sweetslumbertime .com. I'm not gonna tell you what people get mixed up, cause then you'll get mixed up, but sweetslumbertime .com. And my handle on Instagram is sweetslumbertime. So that's easy. Same thing. Podcasts, the sweet slumber podcast. And if you searched baby centered sleep, you'd also find those things. So.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (44:53.262)
awesome.

Meredith (44:54.259)
The business name was there before the methods and this approach of mine. And then you'll find a contact tab on the website. So just look for that if you want to email or you want to set up a call. And I'm pretty generous. I like to visit with moms and kind of give them my take on what their little ones need or screen for sleep disorders. I'll just talk to someone, chat with them about my...

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (44:58.766)
smart. Yeah.

Meredith (45:22.195)
Sleep Consultant Training Program. So look for the contact tab and just set, we'll chat.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (45:26.062)
Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much again. This has been great. I wish we could talk for the rest of the day. I have so many questions, but I'll find your contact tab. But thank you so much. I appreciate your time.

Meredith (45:41.523)
You're welcome. Thanks so much for having me.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (45:43.534)
No problem. We'll talk to you soon.

Jessica Lamb | The Mama Making Podcast (45:48.886)
you