The Mama Making Podcast

Naha Pandya | Bridging the Postpartum Care Gap: The Recovery Method

• Jessica Lamb, Dr. Naha Pandya, The Recovery Method • Season 3 • Episode 103

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In this episode of The Mama Making Podcast, host Jessica Lamb speaks with Dr. Naha Pandya, founder of the Recovery Method, about the critical gaps in postpartum care. Dr. Pandya shares her personal experiences with postpartum challenges and the lack of support many new mothers face. She discusses her mission to bridge these gaps through education, community support, and an interdisciplinary approach to maternal health. 

This conversation highlights the importance of creating a stronger network for postpartum mothers and explores innovative solutions to improve care and resources for this vital stage of motherhood.

You can connect with Naha:

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Jessica Lamb (00:57)
Hello everyone and welcome to the Mama Making Podcast. If you're new here, I'm your host Jessica. If you're not new, then welcome back. Today I'm very excited to have Dr. Neha Pandya on the podcast.

Dr. Pandya is the founder of the recovery method. And today we're going to be chatting about the gaps in care during the postpartum period, which we talk about a ton on this podcast and the wonderful educational platform she's created to bridge this gap. Thank you for joining me today. So tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, where you're from, your family, whatever you're comfortable sharing.

Naha Pandya (01:26)
Thanks for having me, Jessica.

So I am a physical therapist by trade. I am from Chicago, Illinois, in the suburbs of Chicago, Illinois. And I have been a physical therapist for almost a little over a decade now. And through my practice, I've treated several different settings, acute, outpatient, subacute, everything. And never did I ever encounter a postpartum mom.

But it never really hit me until I became a mom myself. So I am a mom of two. I have a four-year-old son and a two-year-old daughter. They are my world and my soul. And the reason that the recovery method really came about is because I wanted to bridge this gap of care that we are underserving a vast amount of population, this postpartum population. And it...

really hit me harder when I had my own daughter and realizing that she may go through the same postpartum period and that journey where I was very vulnerable and that really hit me hard. So I wanted to create something for postpartum moms that will help them navigate their motherhood journeys and make this experience a little bit more

more wonderful, right? And just make it as easy as possible for them.

Jessica Lamb (02:55)
Do you want to talk a little bit more about what your postpartum experiences looked like, maybe with your first one and then your second, how they differed in your experience?

Naha Pandya (03:04)
Yeah, absolutely. It's true when they say each postpartum journey is different, and it's very true. My first postpartum experience was in the very peak of COVID. I had my son at the beginning of 2021. And of course, I had the whole mask in the hospital. Once you're in the hospital, you can't leave. My husband couldn't leave. We couldn't have any family there.

I had a 36 hour labor where it felt a long time. I didn't even go into the hospital until I was almost 11 to 12 hours in because I knew that if I wasn't dilated enough, they were just going to send me home. And so I went in with a plan of, you know, laboring and being discharged the next day and coming home, but that wasn't the case. And unfortunately I had to have a

emergency c-section that landed me in the hospital for almost a week and it was difficult to navigate away from what you had intended as part of your plan and now having to also be a mom to a newborn and being vulnerable and figuring out how to recover from such a major surgery. So in that time period I remembered staying

in the hospital and laying there and thinking, okay, someone's going to come and help me out of bed. Where's the PT? Where's OT? And as I'm, you know, one day goes by, two days go by, I ask the nurse and nurse is like, no one's coming. And I was like, what do mean no one's coming? And they're like, the PTOT don't see postpartum moms. like, even after a major surgery, they don't see you? And they're like, no. And I was like,

How did this never occur to me even having worked in an acute setting? And once that hit, I was like, this is not what I was expecting at all. Someone has to do something. So since then to now, I'm still working on figuring out how this is happening, but really trying to figure out how to bridge this gap. My second birth was great. It was like...

I had a scheduled cesarean. I walked in, sat on the operating table, had my surgery, and I mandated that I'm walking out of that hospital within two days. You are not keeping me here, so do whatever testing you want. I was much more prepared. I even set up things in the house for making my maternity leave a little bit more easier and things that would make me happy.

After my first, I had terrible postpartum depression and it was undiagnosed until really my mother-in-law was the one that said, you need to start talking to someone. It wasn't pleasant at all. I didn't want to see anyone. I didn't want to speak to anyone. Really the only two people that saw me in that period was my mother-in-law and my husband. And that was by choice. I kept everybody else away. I didn't really want to talk to anyone.

and after real recognizing the signs myself, I did, it didn't, it didn't hit me right away that this is not good. I need to see somebody. I went and I tried to find a counselor, a mental health therapist, and that was very difficult as well. I would go down rabbit holes of, material on Google because that's when you realize the depths of the internet are so.

deep and you go down rabbit holes trying to look for answers. And I'm like, this isn't good either. there has to be a better way. After a while, I found somebody, went through about 10 weeks, 10 sessions, a little bit more, think, and really helped with figuring out what I wanted to do in terms of my, my mental health.

It helped me become a better mom to my newborn. I think it was a very difficult time to navigate a big change in my life. But my second time around was again, much better capacity to handle it because I had set things up for myself in the house. For example, just little things that would make me happy, positive affirmations on my breastfeeding card, things I like to watch, a list of

a list of books I wanted to read, foods that made me happy. I even bought my favorite pair of pajamas that I still have, right? And everything and anything that I knew just so that I don't go down that same rabbit hole again. And I wanted to give people the same type of information that, you may not get the answers from somebody else. You will have to self-navigate your motherhood journey.

You can find tools to do that, and that's what we're developing.

Jessica Lamb (07:32)
Yeah, so going back to your first birth, think, just to like validate your experience a little bit, think one, COVID in itself was like crazy. No one expected to have a birth that was like masked and isolated. And I think that is huge when you're like dreaming of what you want your birth to look like. I imagine most people, that's not what they're picturing.

So I think that is like kind of a, a very baseline kind of a bummer and kind of a letdown, but then on top of it to have a surgery, a full surgery that you didn't really expect to have or prepare for. Like you said, with any other surgery, like you're probably preparing ahead of time for it. Like if you broke your arm, you're preparing to have the surgery. Whereas with the birth, you, you're not preparing for it at all on the backend.

Could you give a little more insight as a, as like a health provider practitioner on you mentioned like any other surgery, PT and OT and probably nutrition are coming down after you've been there for two plus days. Can you share a little bit more insight on your, your like medical experience background on why that was like crazy to you? I think.

Naha Pandya (08:49)
I think that

when, what was the craziest part for me? I used to work in acute setting. I've worked for two major hospital groups in the Chicagoland area. And I remember in those days, thinking to my, in my head, like, why am I seeing this patient for altered mental status? Like they're literally coming in because not due to any functional.

like discrepancies or health specifically, physically health related issues. But it was like a, it was a visit that we had to fulfill. We would go in, I would do an evaluation and a discharge at the same time. They didn't need our services, but it was something that was put in, an order was put in. So we had to fulfill it. So when I'm in the hospital and I've just had surgery and no one's coming, even though

again, it was a surgery, right? Like you're cutting through seven layers of tissue to get there. And you are going through the same phases of recovery as any other surgery would, right? The inflammation, the healing, the functional limitations, all of that. And having to navigate, having to learn how to safely transfer from sitting to standing, protecting your incisions, all of that.

No one's there to teach you that. So that's what really got me was, wow, like how are these moms getting up? And given the fact that you have a surgery for your knee, you go home with just a surgery for your knee. You're not going home with a baby that's coming out of your knee, right? So in my head, I'm like, okay, so you're giving me a baby that I cannot put down. I have to feed it around the clock. You're telling me that I can't sleep. I can't heal.

and you're not going to help me or teach me how to get out of bed. That's great. So that's where it really got me. that's my sh- it wasn't a surprise, it was a shock.

Jessica Lamb (10:29)
That's where it.

Yeah. And

I think that's like thinking about it right now. I'm like, that's just like a basic level of care that you would provide to someone post hospital stay or post surgery. so it's just like crazy that, that is not something that is standard across the board, for postpartum C-section moms.

Naha Pandya (10:54)
Yeah, especially with the statistics that

we know, 32 % of pregnancies result in cesareans. So you're missing out on 32 % of visits for a hospital, right? And the way that our hospital systems are, they're like, we are in debt and blah, blah. Well, clearly you're not seeing a whole population.

Jessica Lamb (11:05)
Yeah.

Naha Pandya (11:13)
And I'm not sure exactly what the reasoning is. I'm not an admin or ever working on the hospital side. By all means, I'm sure there's a reason. But to me as a patient, explain it to me. To me as the healthcare provider, explain it to me. Because I do see that as a patient and as a healthcare provider, they need to come together. There is a need here. So who's standing in the middle of this? And that's where it's like, okay, perhaps

Somebody needs to call the shots in order to get these two together, the patient and the provider. So it's like, perhaps the people that we're relying on, for example, the hospital systems to call the shots, they're not. So what are we gonna do about it? Well, I'm just going to go ahead and give the tools to the mom herself so that she can start calling the shots here, right? At the end of the day, if she doesn't even know that this opportunity exists for her, how is she going to

to speak up for herself? How is she going to say that this is something that I want in the hospital? Nobody can advocate for themselves if you don't even know that that opportunity is there. This option even exists. So that's kind of where my head went immediately. And my first maternity leave, I just started kind of putting in some

Jessica Lamb (12:15)
Yeah, absolutely.

Naha Pandya (12:34)
some time to myself as I was going through counseling and really researching what this postpartum gap in the United States is and how we can bridge it and come to find we're the only ones that have it. Like it's crazy because all these developed countries have these standardized postpartum care guidelines. And then here we are, we're just like, here's a surgery, here's a baby, figure it out. by the way, you also have to go back to work soon. So figure that out too.

It's like we're really just not setting anybody up for success here.

Jessica Lamb (13:04)
Yeah, agreed. And I think coming from a perspective of being in the healthcare world, you're able to see things a little bit differently. Like you said, you don't know unless you're doing it or dealing with it. I think for you to be like, my God, we have to do something about this is amazing. Cause I think you only have a perspective from inside the healthcare system if you've been a part of it. So I think also, I think part of

I experienced my own birth trauma a little bit and I did notice that a lot of my going through therapy and all of that, a lot of my challenge, I guess, was feeling like I was failed. So I feel like maybe that's part of it too for you that you had this expectation of what it was going to look like and then it was just not. but I think that's so incredible that it propelled you to want to do something more.

Naha Pandya (13:54)
Yeah, and I'll speak to that a little bit because when it comes to failure, right, we as healthcare professionals on our graduation day, we take an oath, right? That oath is to always do right by our patients. It doesn't matter what profession you are, everybody has to take an oath, right? So as a provider, I am not saying that I don't want to see this patient population. Providers are not getting a say in that, right?

Perhaps if they did, this might look a little different. This conversation might be different. We wouldn't even be having it. But unfortunately, that's not the case, right? Patients are not getting a say in it. Providers are not getting a say in it. So how is that fair, right? As a provider, I want to help everybody and anybody that can benefit from my services. But again, as a provider,

I'm working in a hospital system and you're delegating me a resource towards something that is not feasible or I don't perhaps see the clinical reasoning into seeing that specific patient. We can delegate that resource towards seeing a patient that needs our services. So what is it that we're missing? Is it lack of education? Is it lack of resources? Is it just there isn't a feasible

expense to it? What is it, right? And if we can just figure that out as a whole, the provider community can do more by their patients. In addition to that, we're also burdening a whole discipline for postpartum moms. We are blaming OB-GYN physicians that, hey, you're not doing right by your patients, but it's not their fault. They're overworked, right? They are

seeing a whole population of patients postpartum and throughout their fertility and pregnancy, right? Of course you get more visits that, but postpartum, they're seeing that patient one time because they have other patients that they're seeing. For every 1,000 births in this country, we have such minimal allocations of OB-GYN and midwives, right? And that's unfortunate truth. I can't go out there and tell people, start,

taking training to become an OB-GYN. That's not gonna happen. We as a country cannot control that, but what we can control is increasing the type of providers that postpartum moms can see. Having an interdisciplinary approach to this care, as we do for other surgical or even just other populations, right, in general, surgery and non-surgery. So why not implement the same strategy of care and practice to this population?

an interdisciplinary approach where they can see multiple disciplines, we can perhaps decrease the maternal mortality rate because more disciplines are facing moms, giving them more one-on-one care, the time that perhaps an OB-GYN or midwife is not able to delegate. That is what we're really, our mission is to help standardize that concept.

Jessica Lamb (16:48)
So what does that all look like in practice for you? How did, I know there's probably, like you said, there's so, like you could list off the different areas that are like, we could do this better or that better. How did you kind of narrow down your focus and what were the steps that took you to be like, okay, this is what we're doing?

Naha Pandya (17:06)
So that's a great question. When I started first researching for what I wanted this bridging the gap of care look like, the recovery method was actually a model of education for obigine and midwives. When I started researching and really understanding why this gap exists, which I dedicated about four years to, and

seeing these statistics, it was just mind boggling. And so I completely changed the platform to be more patient focused and empowering to moms. The reason being one, after doing a good few months of surveys and asking to providers such as like OB-GYNs and midwives to really answer some questions in terms of what is it that they would like from

from a platform like this. What would make it easier for them to delegate some of the burden that they have? And everybody responded with one thing, and this was like 100 % universal response was educational resources for their patients. And so then I was like, okay, I'm gonna create courses for them. I'm gonna help with training them. They're like, we don't have time for that. So.

Okay, how can I better help you then? So they're like, well, if there was just like, you know, people that we can really send our patients to or material that we can give them. And I said, perfect. I can introduce you to people and get you to build a referral community. And they're like, we don't have time for that. Okay. So what do we do here? So what I came up with was then a one-stop shop platform where we're going to create the largest database of providers.

of all disciplines in one place. And these are providers that we're going to scope out. We're going to make it an exclusive directory so that they are specialists in their discipline. They are people that are truly passionate about advocating for postpartum health. And we're also going to create a library of resources that is from credible providers. is written by our providing partners.

products and supply lists, everything that is verified and safe for postpartum moms to use. So we want to put all of that information in one place where the referring provider just hands a flyer to the mom with a QR code and says, here you go. This is going to help answer some of those questions that you may have at 3 a.m. And for more information, go on here and here are providers that you can go ahead and see.

then this is going to make a process of sending referrals much more streamlined. In my opinion, we are working on mandating a referral for every mom to pelvic health, vaginal or cesarean birth. We want to have the postpartum mom see a discipline at that seven to 14 day discharge from the hospital because it's very important to...

you know, catch some of those early signs of mental distress, as well as any physical signs of physical distress. There's so many different avenues that we are navigating right now in terms of what we want to put out into the platform. So that's kind of how I was able to narrow down what I've really wanted to create in terms of structure.

Jessica Lamb (20:22)
So tell me about some of the resources. Who's included in this and why?

Naha Pandya (20:26)
In this platform, we have included obviously physical therapists because I'm one, but also occupational therapists, lactation consultants, mental health therapists, doulas, which I think are very important, fitness and dietician, holistic providers, and then support groups within the community. We are partnering with providers that are

very much the unicorns of their profession. And what I mean by that is as a healthcare provider, I was taught to always stay within my scope of practice. You do this and that's your job. These providers that we've partnering with that we have found are doing things that are creative and are looking at a mom in a holistic manner. They are

doing more than just staying in their lanes. They are creating networks and support groups and channels and communities for moms. They are giving moms an outlet that really we are missing. They are helping to build a village. And that's where the term build your village comes from. We are not meant to raise our children alone. We need people by us. And that's not just family and friends.

Jessica Lamb (21:28)
the term, build your knowledge construct.

Naha Pandya (21:38)
It is a village of professionals who will support us. The reason that I became a physical therapist is because I'm not just a patient torturer as people call you, right? When you're a physical therapist, I loved connecting with all of my patients and adding that emotional support to the element of emotional support to their therapy, which I think is very important and only a postpartum

postpartum provider will know that. Doesn't matter what discipline you are, but you give moms this emotional support of any sort, it will help her get through that day so much better than she would have without you. And that's what we're doing is trying to create a village for her and a village for these postpartum providers too, so that they can.

also navigate what they're doing and their expertise, right? They are not staying within their lanes, right? And that's not how it's supposed to be. You're supposed to do whatever you can in your capacity and whatever you want in your capacity to treat a patient. And I truly believe that teaching each other and creating a network of methods of how you're going to practice is really going to be the key to helping a whole population that we're not serving right now.

Jessica Lamb (22:53)
Yeah, I think one of the big things I've noticed the tide kind of turning is these unicorn providers who are connected with other providers outside of what they do or have this network of other support people for women and families. And I think that, like you said, that building back up of the village, I think a lot of people are like, okay, what does that mean, myself included?

And I think, I mean, if we think back in history, the women took care of each other and everyone had their own little expertise and they all helped grow their community. And I think that we're kind of slowly inching back to that. Cause I think people like yourself and people who are focused on that community care are kind of coming together and kind of.

coming out of the shadows of their specific specialty and saying, hey, I think we need to start teaming up together. So I think it's really incredible to kind of see it happen on the outside. I'm not a provider, but I think being able to see all these different providers come together and meet a very obvious need. Like they say, think individual decisions and choices make a difference, but once...

individuals are all making the choice together to prioritize caring for each other. I think that's kind of where the change starts to happen. So I love this idea of bringing all of these providers together to start meeting that need.

Naha Pandya (24:21)
Yeah, I think so too. think everybody's on the same track, right? At the end of the day, everybody out there that is putting in their part is doing it to better moms, to better women in general. And I think that in whatever capacity that they're doing it, they're doing a brilliant job, yet we're still not there. We need to fill such a large hole, and it's going to take a lot more hands to do that.

There are people within every corner of this country that are doing wonderful things. And by spotlighting them and highlighting them, they're able to just not just connect within their communities, but connect nationally, right? I want to be able to create a page specifically to four providers that where they can enhance their skills. They can see somebody who's doing something wonderful in Oregon and learn from that and then put that into play in Tampa, right? We want people to...

essentially learn from each other and that's how we can better ourselves and as providers and that's the whole goal. I think overall, as long as we can all agree that this is a population that really truly needs help, I think we're all going to do amazing things and I'm hoping that every solution that from

Jessica Lamb (25:18)
I think...

Naha Pandya (25:32)
you know, before and whatever is in the future is going to again help with bettering postpartum moms and creating a more standardized approach to care versus just figure it out kind of method.

Jessica Lamb (25:44)
Yeah, so tell me what does the platform itself look like? How do people access it? How do they interact with it, if you will?

Naha Pandya (25:51)
Sure, so the platform itself is all on a website and it is a mobile-friendly website as well. Anybody can go on it and anybody can subscribe to it. Any resources in the database itself is all accessible for free. We want to serve a population of moms, but we understand that 42 % of moms in this country that give birth are also from an underserved population.

We are making it free and accessible for them. And the platform itself, we have built it so that it is a two-way street. So for example, there's an avenue for moms to navigate, an avenue for providers to navigate. Providers are able to have all of their information and their business information on there. We have a membership program for them so that they are able to

utilize all of the resources collectively for their patients. They are also able to come to any of the networking events that we have. We put them out quite often. And we are also building a conference, hopefully, a national conference that we are going to do in three major cities this year, hopefully. And providers are able to attend any of those and really just

Get in front of some amazing brands that you know are local and national also Give postpartum moms a channel to network and find their village By attending these events as well So then the website itself if you go on WWW.therecoverymethodinfo.com You'll be able to see all that we have collected thus far which has been since like

May of last year.

Jessica Lamb (27:31)
So if you are a provider, how do you become a part of the resource?

Naha Pandya (27:37)
You can go on our website and there is a page called Become a Member and you submit an application. You do a 15 minute interview. We do a thorough dive into what your practice is, how you came about your business, what your specific skillset is, and if it is something that would help the recovery method population of patients. And that's how we have them become a part of our community.

Jessica Lamb (28:02)
That's amazing. I think that there is never, I think with the internet, like you said, the way it is today, there's always so much information out there. of course it's all super, like you said, at 3 a.m. when you're nursing or pumping or breastfeeding, whatever it is, it can be scary. And so I think to have a trusted list of people who have been vetted or resources,

that they can turn to that they can be assured or trusted. And then same for other providers. I think a lot of times we do, providers attend networking or things that are specific to their specialty and they're like, wait, these are not my people. I think it's providing a really great opportunity for practitioners of all kinds to kind of get together and serve the population they are focused on.

Naha Pandya (28:50)
Absolutely. I think that it's very important that people can find each other. At the end of the day, that's what we need, right? We need people to learn from each other and the only way they can do that is to find each other. And you can't make that hard. Like you really can't. Unfortunately, if you give them too much information as Google does, that is hard. So we're just trying to take the hard out of that. We're trying to stop that scroll.

Jessica Lamb (28:51)
Thank

Right.

Yeah, for sure.

Naha Pandya (29:17)
at 3 a.m.

Jessica Lamb (29:18)
Yeah. And I think making it easy for moms is essential. There's so many good resources out there, but sometimes I think it's like too complicated and too hard to navigate. I mean, the healthcare system in and of itself is like crazy to try to navigate and find care for yourself. but if it can all be housed under one umbrella, very easy to find. I imagine more families and more, moms who are postpartum will find the resources they need quickly.

Which I'm sure all all the providers are hopeful that moms get where they need to go quickly after after birth

Naha Pandya (29:49)
Absolutely, I agree.

Jessica Lamb (29:50)
So you mentioned the website already, but where can people find you on socials?

Naha Pandya (29:54)
On social, we are on Instagram, as well as LinkedIn. On Instagram, it is at the underscore recovery, underscore method. And on LinkedIn, it's the recovery method. You can feel free to take a look at all of our posts. We are always open to doing collaborations. I want to continue to grow that platform as much as I can to help our mission.

get there, right? We want to make sure that moms are finding us. And we want to help providers find, you know, information for their patients too. So providers, whether you're a member or not, you can still access all of that information for your patients. We would love to have more providers join so that we are able to help as many moms find answers and find providers within their communities as possible. Again, we are going to be a national

database so far. are all over the country. I can't even tell you how many cities, but we want to continue to grow in that way. If they want to contact me directly, they can contact me at neha at the recovery method info.com.

Jessica Lamb (31:03)
Well, this is such incredible work. I'm glad you were able to be on the podcast and share a little bit more about it. and look forward to sharing the resource with our listeners.

Naha Pandya (31:11)
Absolutely, I really appreciate this. Yeah, no problem.

Jessica Lamb (31:13)
Well, thanks for being on.